BOD on film / Homeowner witness argh.

Started by FionaC1 • 17 replies • 1459 views

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FionaC1 (Washington)
Posts: 93

Posted:

I would like to have a bit of guidance on how to proceed..

#1 A homeowner came to my home reporting and incident in plain view that he witnessed a board member breaking. He insisted it was on CCTV.

#2 Video was viewed and yes, it was easily seen the rule in question being broken.

It's a big enough deal to me as I have had to approach homeowners point blank and tell them they are breaking this rule and now we have a board member who knows better.

I asked the homeowner to bring to the next board meeting. Bring it to open forum. I will not take action on his behalf.. but the rule that was broken could affect the health and safety of everyone.

Is it appropriate to email the board member 1:1 and let her know of the complaint and that a homeowner brought this to my attn? Should I tell her I think it's only fair not to do this.. or let the homeowner complain about it, not do anything and this activity make our entire BOD look not credible.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Why do you allow yourself to be put in the middle of these situations?

Come to the next Board meeting and bring up your issue.

Rather than allowing people to USE you in pushing their agenda.

The homeowner attempted to involve you and you allowed that to happen and now you are not sure how to proceed. Would have been a better choice to avoid being in that position.

FionaC1 (Washington)
Posts: 93

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 06/07/2013 1:13 PM
Why do you allow yourself to be put in the middle of these situations?

Come to the next Board meeting and bring up your issue.

Rather than allowing people to USE you in pushing their agenda.

The homeowner attempted to involve you and you allowed that to happen and now you are not sure how to proceed. Would have been a better choice to avoid being in that position.

And what do you suggest??

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Fiona

I agree with Jon. Why do you let yourself be put in the middle?

Let the owner send a formal complaint to the BOD along with their evidence.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

have the complaining HO put the complaint in writing to the BOD

any evidence would be attached to the letter

then the BOD will take appropriate action against ALL known violators of the rule in ?

no signed letter ~ no board action

in other words:

no tickee ~ no shirtee

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

In CA, in writing, violators are called to hearings in executive session, not open meetings. What do your state statutes or governing documents require? Our governing documents & state statutes, and probably yours too, Fiona, tell you how you need to proceed. Do your docs allow you to call to hearing and potentially fine violators upon the first offense? Or is the first offense met with a warning or "courtesy" letter to the violator?

Since you're a director and witnessed the violation on film, you're going to have to do the job. You, in my opinion, cannot hide or cover up this violation of your HOA's rules. It doesn't matter one bit that the violator is a director. You, since the entire board hasn't yet seen the footage, could indeed be held responsible and accused of playing favorites if you overlook misconduct by a fellow director.

Our Board's evidence of violations also is on film sometimes. So even if we directors have not directly seen the violation, we act to correct it.

Is there a reason why this violation that threatens the "health & safety" of your community can't be shared with us????

So, I disagree with both SC Johns that the initial witness must be the one to pursue this.

In the future, it'll be better if you refer any witness of a violation to your PM, which I believe I remember you have, and let the PM view the film and initiate the appropriate action.

Or am I missing something??

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Whoops, perhaps you don't have a PM, Fiona, in which case, the witness ask the witness to send a letter to the board. Then, in a case like this, the Board can review the footage.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FionaC1 on 06/07/2013 1:37 PM

And what do you suggest??

Well the next time someone knocks on your door and attepts to discuss HOA matters I would say.....

I am NOT the HOA Board. I am just one member. Therefore I DO NOT act on behalf of or in substitution for the Board. I am not the MC. Nor do I offer my home as a place where hoemowners can bring their gripes and issues. Goodbye and Good night.

Now that you decided to act otherwise you find yourself in quite a pickle. Do you give the Board member involved a heads up. Do you pursue the violation yourself as a Board member. Sems to me you have allowed yourself to be put right in the middle of this when a simple " I don't wish to discuss this in this setting." Could have avoided this all.

Live and learn. OR fail to learn and live with the same mistakes over and over again.....

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Yes this topic seemed to be a repeat of your prior posting.
So Fiona it would appear you have yet to change YOUR behavior and find yourself in the same position as before. And this time when a neighbor shows up at your door for you to view a video you agree to do so.

Why then bother to ask what you should do? You allow these people to visit you home and drop off their issues with the Board then accept responsibility because YOU have allowed it and continue to do so.

FionaC1(Washington)

Posts:19
05/11/2013 10:27 PM Quote Reply
I am not a new board member but due to the stress and the inability of our board to get along I took a couple of years off of serving.but ALWAYS remanined an active homeowner.

I was elected for term this month to serve on our HOA BOD. I decided to jump in for various reasons, one being the most problematic BOD has moved out of the area, but is still on the HOA BOD, I thought I could help as I am a long time resident/ homeowoner/ HOA member etc.

I am finding that some of my neighbors, and it's more than several have big time issues with the BOD. Various problems mostly rooting back a few years. Since our new term is starting I have been approached by 3 home homeowners, actually a 4th today who have big problems with the way our BOD has been handling things. There is a trend in these homeowners..

#1 I know for fact these homeowners DO NOT attend meetings, so therefore they are not aware of the latest and greatest info.

#2 All of these homeowners have little to know working knowledge of the law that we are bound by.. despite being listed as Seattle.. I live in CA.. DSA is something these people dont' know about.

#3 Literally all of the homeowners have approached me have had personal issues / treatment / with prior board members.

What I am at is... every single homeowner that has approached me I have made it clear, I will not take information back to the board on their behalf.. they must speak up themselves and attend meetings... they are adults here and that I do understand the issues as I have had some myself.. but coming to a single BOD for a biotch fest is not going to help anything.

I have had the same conversation with one of these homeowners, and he doesn't seem to get it. He has been to my home on my days off, talking for >30 minutes at a time about things that should be taken to a meeting. I have told him.. "Just my voice doesn't carry much weight.." " I need you to take that to a meeting" But this man is so persistant, he even attempted to reach me once when I was on vacation out of state.. thank goodness he didn't have a #.

How does one apprach neighbors who have such issues? many are valid, but all I can do is move forward and clean up..

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Carol

In real life, if one on the BOD becomes known as the "proxy Chief Complaining Officer" they can quickly become much less effectual. As soon as they open their mouth saying ...somebody has asked me to bring this to your attention...people sigh and mutter...not again. People do not want to hear from a CCO over and over, even when they are the "proxy CCO".

My wife is on the quiet side but people that know her say, when she speaks you best pay attention. She did not earn that respect by talking all the time.

In any complaint (including the videoed incident), I want first hand information (like I saw/videoed it) before I take any action. I do not want 2nd or 3rd hand information like well somebody said they...whatever...(video or not).

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

John46, I think Fiona said that she herself did view the video. But wait, Fiona did write "the video was viewed." So does that mean she herself viewed it??

I've already written that she should refer complainers to the PM or write to the Board. You're correct, no one would want to hear 2nd had info over and over again.

Jon reminds us that Fiona's put herself back in the position that she wanted advice about some time ago. Seems like she ignored our advice.

I've served on my Board for 6-1/2 years now and have been quite "effectual" [sic]. I haven't needed to personally report a director, but I sure as heck would NOT cover up for one! That was my point. We all need to follow the same rules. No Ole Boys Club in my HOA.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

My vice-president owned a HUGE German Shepard. Nicest dog on the planet. He walked the dog daily in the neighborhood. Very well known dog. Another member (Later became president after me) owned a cat. She was in the front yard holding the cat when he came around the corner with the dog. The cat does what a cat does...It scratched her to pieces! Really bad scratches too.

Now I did not see it happen but did see the scratches and know the dog. So I knew this did happen. She was upset that he did not apologize. He did not feel he needed to as his dog didn't do anything but walk by. She was holding the cat. After this, they wanted to recall my Vice- President. He had other issues as well with also not paying dues at the time as well.

I had to address this issue at the meeting. I had to tell him of the situation and be open about it. They never did come and try to recall him. However, I had to hear complaints for months until the next election came up.

The bottom line is that you do have to address this situation and the board member has a right to be informed. It is uncomfortable but no need in hiding it. It doesn't do well and considering they are part of the board who makes the decision on how to punish, has to recuse themselves from that vote.

Former HOA President

FionaC1 (Washington)
Posts: 93

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolR11 on 06/07/2013 2:32 PM
In CA, in writing, violators are called to hearings in executive session, not open meetings. What do your state statutes or governing documents require? Our governing documents & state statutes, and probably yours too, Fiona, tell you how you need to proceed. Do your docs allow you to call to hearing and potentially fine violators upon the first offense? Or is the first offense met with a warning or "courtesy" letter to the violator?

Since you're a director and witnessed the violation on film, you're going to have to do the job. You, in my opinion, cannot hide or cover up this violation of your HOA's rules. It doesn't matter one bit that the violator is a director. You, since the entire board hasn't yet seen the footage, could indeed be held responsible and accused of playing favorites if you overlook misconduct by a fellow director.

Our Board's evidence of violations also is on film sometimes. So even if we directors have not directly seen the violation, we act to correct it.

Is there a reason why this violation that threatens the "health & safety" of your community can't be shared with us????

So, I disagree with both SC Johns that the initial witness must be the one to pursue this.

In the future, it'll be better if you refer any witness of a violation to your PM, which I believe I remember you have, and let the PM view the film and initiate the appropriate action.

Or am I missing something??

Pet in pool.. is that enough? There are laws against pets in public pools, it's #4 on our rules list and this board member has a history of bringing her dog into non pet areas, clubhouse, pool room, etc.. always without a leash.

FionaC1 (Washington)
Posts: 93

Posted:

The only reason I viewed our CCTV video is I was copying our views of our recent tresspassers.. and yes I did set the machine to the date and time so and so complaint was put forth.

I am not taking the complaint anywhere.. but it was verified.. this is for executive session.

Some board members are just rogue. I do not think I'd be brave enough to take my house cat down to the pool.. and possibly let him use the planters for a litter box while I am in the pool.. on film. I will only pipe in if this becomes a real complaint..

Meanwhile, this homeowner stated he has so many complaints about the board and nobody takes hime seriously.. he also seems to have an agenda.. but he can also take pictures and bring them to open session. I asked him to do this to put his complaints not only in writing but come in person. Let the person be accountable for her actions. Don't judge the entire HOA.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

So, is this director never sent warning letters about rules violations, Fiona? Is this director never fined??

We have a rule against pets in the pool too and if I saw one, I'd make sure our PM wrote the owner a warning letter. Ewwwwwww!

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

BOD member, BOD Officer, owner, etc. it does not matter. A rules violation is a rules violation and should/can be treated as such.

You see it, report it. Someone else sees it and tells you, you tell them to report it.

It is rather simple.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Fiona,

It's simple.
A complaint of an alleged violation was brought to a board member.
Available evidence shows that a violation was done.

Ignore the fact that the violator is a member of the Board, as it has no bearing on the issue.

Process the complaint as you would for any other member a valid complaint was made against.

It's that simple.

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