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JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
If HOA board is informed of a safety issue in the community, and no action is taken to resolve the safety problem and an accident occurres because of the safety issue is the board liable
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
It depends, Joseph. Sorry you had an accident on HOA property.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Joseph,

I am not an attorney and I do not work in the legal profession. You are asking a legal question that is best answered by legal professionals. We can only offer you answers based on our experience. The best answer was from Kelly, it depends.

Were they informed of the issue in writing (i.e. so there is a paper trail)?
Was the nature of the issue immediate or a potential safety issue (immediate: fallen tree, potential: dead branch)?
Has a meeting occurred since the Board was informed?
What has been done (contractors contacted, bids sought, self help, notices, etc.)?
Was the accident a direct result of the issue or was the issue a contributory cause?
What was the extent of the injuries?
How much time has passed between the notice and the accident?
Did the person who reported the issue have the accident (i.e. if they knew about the issue, why didn't they take steps to avoid it)?

Typically, if an Association is informed of an issue and does nothing there could be some liability issues. However, if the Association was taking steps to address the issue, depending on what those steps were, the Association may have some or no liability.

If the accident could be resolved by an insurance claim, like storm damage, then the accident victim should contact both the Association and their own insurance company. Their own insurance company will, if the issue is covered, take care of the issue and resolve claims for reimbursement with the Associations insurance company.

If the accident can't be resolved by an insurance claim you should seek legal advice from a qualified attorney in your area to explore those options.

Be mindful, it's best to try and resolve the issue directly with the Association. Otherwise, judgements, legal expenses and/or insurance claims can result in higher assessments and/or a special assessment for everyone.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Would you mind sharing the safety issue with us? In addition, is it in or on a common area? Was your Board notified in writing of this issue?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The board would not be liable... The WHOLE HOA would be. So ALL the members would be responsible for paying for damages that occurred. The board just acts on the behalf of the general membership for daily running of the HOA. No individual board member would be liable due to insurance.

Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
an individual director is NOT repeat NOT totally immune from personal liability

they are only shielded when acting in good faith, using the common business JUDGEMENT of an ordinary person

if someone told YOU PERSONALLY that your front steps were actually crumbling and you took no action to correct the issue ~ you would be personally liable with NO INSURANCE COVERAGE

check with your agent

if a director knowingly and wilfully breaches their fiduciary duty they ARE personally liable and WILL NOT be covered by any D&O insurance in place

non-feasance: failure to perform one's duties ~ not covered

mis-feasance: 'screwing up' while attempting to perform one's duties - covered

mal-feasance: deliberately performing damaging acts - not covered & criminal

D&O or E&O insurance only covers mis-feasance

read it and weep ~ suggest y'all actually read and understand your policies

the above is the reason for 'fidelity bonding' and the reason for its high cost
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I agree that, in the event of a lawsuit, the board and the entire HOA would be liable.

Ensure that your HOA's liability policy includes E & O coverage and is paid up.

Another point to consider is that just because someone says something is a safety issue doesn't mean it is a safety issue. Your HOA board should consider it. If it agrees, then make a plan. And keep a paper trail.

And, doing everything right is no guarantee of avoiding legal action.

Last year my HOA and all the trustees were sued by an angry ex-president who lost his bid for re-election. The suit claimed that the HOA didn't exist because we did not renew our governing documents according to the statute under which we were incorporated. Our insurance carrier assigned a legal firm to the case but warned us that they might not be able to pay the claim if we were found to be negligent. In the end, the judge ruled in favor of the defendants (us) and dismissed the case. Our $5K legal bill was paid by our insurance company.

HOA Secretary
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Our insurance carrier assigned a legal firm to the case but warned us that they might not be able to pay the claim if we were found to be negligent.


PRECISELY
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JosephC8 on 06/02/2013 5:33 PM
If HOA board is informed of a safety issue in the community, and no action is taken to resolve the safety problem and an accident occurres because of the safety issue is the board liable

I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

Telling the BOD that people are speeding in the neighborhood and there is going to be an accident is one thing.

Telling the BOD that the pool diving board is cracked and dangerous and they do nothing about and someone gets hurt on it, might well be another issue.

We need more information to even make a best guess.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
John C and John B

thank you for your answers.

(everyone else too, but I especially thought those two were dead on target and informative).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Brian,

Are you and Joseph the same person?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Nah, i am me, and I don't think anyone else would ever, ever want to claim being me.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I thought it was the "real" you, Brian.

For now, I'm waiting for Joseph to reply to our questions.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
When we were in a HOA, people used to roll their eyes when we brought up legal liability.

In California, there is something called willful misconduct. If the board directors are found to have acted in willful misconduct, then the insurance will not cover them and they can be found personally liable.

You might also check with your insurance. Most insurance has a clause that states if the HOA does something that is against state/city/county law, the insurance doesn't cover them. Ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense.

There was a case in Hawaii recently where the directors were found personally liable.

http://themolokainews.com/2012/03/27/ke-nani-kai-residents-receive-3-87-million-jury-award-against-condo-association/

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JM10 on 06/04/2013 12:58 PM
When we were in a HOA, people used to roll their eyes when we brought up legal liability.

In California, there is something called willful misconduct. If the board directors are found to have acted in willful misconduct, then the insurance will not cover them and they can be found personally liable.

You might also check with your insurance. Most insurance has a clause that states if the HOA does something that is against state/city/county law, the insurance doesn't cover them. Ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense.

There was a case in Hawaii recently where the directors were found personally liable.

http://themolokainews.com/2012/03/27/ke-nani-kai-residents-receive-3-87-million-jury-award-against-condo-association/


JM

Where is the analogy between the link and the OP's post?
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/04/2013 5:43 PM
Posted By JM10 on 06/04/2013 12:58 PM
When we were in a HOA, people used to roll their eyes when we brought up legal liability.

In California, there is something called willful misconduct. If the board directors are found to have acted in willful misconduct, then the insurance will not cover them and they can be found personally liable.

You might also check with your insurance. Most insurance has a clause that states if the HOA does something that is against state/city/county law, the insurance doesn't cover them. Ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense.

There was a case in Hawaii recently where the directors were found personally liable.

http://themolokainews.com/2012/03/27/ke-nani-kai-residents-receive-3-87-million-jury-award-against-condo-association/



JM

Where is the analogy between the link and the OP's post?

There was a question about a director's personal liability in the discussion. The link relates to a director's personal liability. I state that just above the link.

If the cause of the accident is willful misconduct/negligence that violates state law, then the insurance may not cover. This is also something that is stated in the link.

Since we do not know the nature of the accident, it would be impossible to look up cases that relate to it, so I only commented on the discussion thread regarding personal liability of the directors.

JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I live in a community with an island in the middle. The streets are two-way on either side of the island NC states that each side is too narrow for two way traffic but ok for one way This is an ongoing issue with our master board who refuses to to put the necessary signs up to make the streets one way. In the past two years I personally almost got into 3 head on collisions. We went to the town and got the ok to make the streets one way but the master board refuses to pay for the signs claiming that the solution is not to park on the streets in question.
JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I live in a community with an island in the middle. The streets are two-way on either side of the island NC states that each side is too narrow for two way traffic but ok for one way This is an ongoing issue with our master board who refuses to to put the necessary signs up to make the streets one way. In the past two years I personally almost got into 3 head on collisions. We went to the town and got the ok to make the streets one way but the master board refuses to pay for the signs claiming that the solution is not to park on the streets in question.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JosephC8 on 06/05/2013 5:51 AM

The streets are two-way on either side of the island NC states that each side is too narrow for two way traffic but ok for one way

Joseph,

If the Association was partially negligent in this scenario would likely be a decision for the courts. The main individuals who would be negligent would be the drivers involved. Of course, an intelligent attorney would likely also include the Association in any action just to hope the Association would settle.

What you appear to have is a difference of opinion. Some believe that the traffic around the island should be one way. Others believe that the issue could be resolved by instituting no parking zones.

You might want to try and get a petition together to call a special meeting of the membership so they decide. Of course, the problem with that is it's going to be an important issue to those who deal with it daily and an unimportant issue to those who don't deal with it at all. therefore, you might not reach a quorum to make the decision.

Have you looked into the cost of the signs and labor to install them?
Perhaps the Association will be more willing to listen if someone has done the work for them of getting a ball park of prices and then volunteer to actually solicit bids and perhaps oversee the work.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well your board is right. They can most likely ban parking on the side of the road. My HOA is the same way. The roads were made to the county specs. We then adopted ourselves into our city. The roads do not meet city codes. Our streets are also now PUBLIC roads and not private. There is not enough room for people to park on both sides of the street and allow cars to safely get in between them. Even emergency vehicles have gotten stuck. However, the HOA is not responsible as the streets are now public and no room to expand the roads.

We also do NOT allow for signs other than "For Sale/Rent". Which I assume your HOA most likely does as well. It looks tacky to have signs in yards and causes a mowing issue for some. Weed whacking or using weed killer around the signs isn't always good. So how would your HOA be able to put up these signs your asking still falling in their rules or not looking tacky as they may have to be placed every 50 - 100 yards from eachother? A strip of one-way signs is not that pleasing or safe.

Our solution was we had to go to the city. There we had to get an ordinance created. That ordinance included only allowing parking on one side of the road. We choose the side of the road with the fire hydrants were on. That way the fire trucks had a right to get to the fire hydrants. It just happened they were on the right side of the street and a few roads that meant no parking directly in front of the home but on the other side of the street. Which most of the time it was just visitors parking on the street and NOT residents.

The next thing we had to do after the city ordinance, is go to the city CODE department. Since we could NOT allow signs we decided on "Painted curbs". We had them come out and paint the curbs RED and Blue for the handicap at the clubhouse. This way the city had a code on the books that red curbs means no parking. That allows for the police to enforce parking rules/enforcement. Without that, they could not say it was illegal to park there.

All in all this helped ALOT. It's not perfect but got people aware of the issue. The red curbs got people's attention. You may or may not paint "No parking" on those for further identifying. However, found that not necessary. If your roads are private and maintained by the HOA. Then they can paint the curbs and add this to their rule books.

A sign has no real power unless there are rules backing it up. So just asking for a sign doesn't mean a whole lot. Need to have it recorded in the HOA documents and/or the city law books to back that sign up.

Former HOA President
JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
In our bylaws we have a parking lane on one side of the street.its in our bylaws we can park. even without parking the street is not wide enough by N.C. law, but wide enough for one lane parking and one way traffic.the signs we want posted are one way signs on the poles that hold the stop signs.the town approved the one way on each side.but it up to the our community to pay for the signs.Which they refused to pay for them.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Joseph

Is the issue the association does not want to pay for the signs or is it that they do not want to do it?

www.safetysigns.com

A 30x30 top line Do Not Enter sign can be purchased for $45

Thanks
JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
they do want to pay for the signs, if do not have signs its not a posted one way street.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well then consider these signs kind of a cluttering effect. I know it would be in our HOA. It looks tacky to have signs every 50 or 100 yards from eachother down a street. Especially if they say the SAME thing... Even if you could get away with just a few signs, it still bothers the owners who have them in their yard.

A HOA is only funded by it's members for it's members. You all want these signs then you all have to agree to pay for them out of your HOA budget. So it could mean a special assessment. Most are probably against that and also don't like the signs. I'd suggest doing the painting the curb thing instead which is more appealing and less intrusive.

Any way you slice it, it's most likely NOT the HOA's fault one has an accident or car damage from side swiping. That is between the car owner's insurances. The HOA only option would be to tear up the street and make the road up to code if you wanted the perfect scenario. Could you imagine the headache and cost associated with that? It's just better to see if you can paint the curbs and get the city to enforce the law you say already exists.

Former HOA President
JosephC8 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
We had a petition circulating around the town home community we had a majority of signatures for the one way street and will not have to put a special assessment for the signs.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
I think at this point, it depends upon the type of accident. I think the accident should be a wake up call. I am not a lawyer so this is just my opinion.

I live in Los Angeles. I find all this talk about clutter from signage laughable. I've pulled into a space just to read the signs before actually parking (or not parking when I read the last sign). The issue is safety. Clutter will sound like a very flimsy defense.

Auto insurance companies often go on what is worth the money. If the other person/party refuses to pay but the amount isn't worth the legal fees then the insurance company won't pursue it so liability is never an issue. I was in two minor car accidents. In both cases my insurance paid because the accident wasn't my fault. However in both cases, I know the other party didn't pay. The first case it was because the car dealership refused to take responsibility and actually threatened me in writing. There was only a scratch on my car (that showed their version of the accident couldn't be true unless their car was being driven backwards). In the second case, I was rear-ended by a driver who couldn't prove ownership of his car, didn't have a driver's license and didn't have insurance. The damage was a couple of thousand with a police officer as a witness.

I would say that if there is an accident where there is a fatality, then previous incidents such as the petition with a majority of signatures, the actual measurements of the road and previous accidents will work against the HOA. Most people have the expectation that if a road isn't marked as one-way it is made to two-way traffic and fulfills the requirement for two-way traffic, particularly since we aren't talking about a road constructed prior to the existence of automobile traffic becoming common place or a rural unpaved road.

There is nothing that keeps an individual from taking the HOA to court and claiming that the accident was foreseeable and the HOA has some percentage of responsibility in either scenario (car accident with no fatality or accident resulting in fatality). After all, there are plenty of frivolous/unfounded lawsuits and obviously there has been some valid concern within the community so there is some foundation for a lawsuit.
JoeF (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
If you are injured or your property damaged, it is common to want to blame someone else. However, just because you were injured or your property was damaged through no apparent fault of your own does not necessarily mean that someone else is liable. In the insurance and legal realms, “responsibility,” “fault” and “negligence” are not synonymous. Many times, someone else (through his insurance carrier) is responsible for paying for your injury or damage, but only if it can be proven that he was negligent. In tort law, a person must exercise the same and proper care that another reasonable and prudent person would have used in the same or similar situation or circumstance. In order to prove negligence you must show 3 things: That the person had responsibility for and control over the item in question; that he was aware (or should have been aware) that a problem or defect existed; and that he did not make a good-faith attempt to correct the problem or defect within a reasonable time-frame. Negligence as a legal term is a serious allegation and can be difficult to prove, so, for this reason, it should not be used frivolously. Sometimes, negligence can only be determined in a court of law. For this reason, if you feel that someone else was negligent and should pay for your injury or property damage, you should nonetheless file a claim with your own insurance carrier immediately, and seek treatment for your injury or repair your property as soon as you are able. You must mitigate your damages. Your carrier may elect to take care of your injuries or repair your damage, and then subrogate against the party who is deemed to be negligent. This means that the insurance company will attempt to recoup the costs from that party or its insurance carrier. Or, you may need to bring your own lawsuit. For this reason, it is important not to wait for someone else to act just because you feel that person may be responsible. It may be a long time before responsibility is allocated (especially if more-than-2 parties are involved), and in the meantime, you need to take care of yourself and your property and get on with your life. Likewise, if someone claims that you are negligent, you should notify your insurance carrier immediately, as it will provide for your defense (if you have liability coverage) and will pay for injury or damage if it is determined that you were indeed negligent. Also, do not argue negligence or liability with another party. Let your insurance carriers and, if necessary, the court, determine who is responsible for what. If you know of a potentially-dangerous condition in the Common Area, please point this out to the Community Manager, so that it can be corrected as soon as possible and before someone is injured.

The "board" itself is normally not liable, as it is usually indemnified by the association's governing documents and, perhaps, by state law. Likewise, individual directors are not personally liable, except in cases of conspiracy or collusion. The board should have a Directors' and Officers' Liability policy in effect at all times, in order to defend it against claims of any nature, including negligence. However, depending on the wording of the specific policy, certain claims may not be covered. Often, these include sexual harassment, discrimination and employment practices. Therefore, a board needs to realize that it does not operate outside of or above the law, which many directors fail to understand. And shame on any board that does not take safety issues seriously. The health, safety and welfare of the residents should be of paramount concern.

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