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CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
My HOA in Michigan needs to determine ownership of a property. This is because someone (Person B) who lives at the property wants to serve as a trustee. According to our bylaws, only a property owner may serve as a trustee.

Person B has said he has a land contract to buy the property from another person (Person A) who no longer lives at the property.

According to the Register of Deeds, Person A holds the deed (2000), as well as two mortgages (2001 and 2005). A third mortgage from 2000 was discharged in 2002.)

The Register of Deeds does not show any documents with Person B's name on it, that could tie Person B to the property.

We think that, if a land contract does exist, it is an unrecorded land contract.

Although not relevant to the question of ownership of the HOA property, Person A bought a home in a neighboring city in 2009 at the same time Person B moved into our HOA.

Our board of trustees is uncomfortable taking the word of Person B that he has a land contract and should be considered the owner. Even if Person B shows us a land contract, we're not comfortable declaring him the owner because we can see that Person A still has two mortgages on the property, and the land contract is unrecorded.

Person B is pretty angry and feels he's being unfairly denied an opportunity to serve as a trustee.

(Personally, I think Person B should lie low and not be making any noise about ownership. My guess is that's Person A's take on it as well. Person A does not want his mortgage company to find out he's sold the property. We think there could be some mortgage fraud going on, but that's just conjecture.)

Thank you for any insight you can give.

~ HOA secretary

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Simply inform person B that the Association recognizes membership based on what is recorded with the County.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I would say ownership is the person on the deed.
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
In a land contract, I believe the deed would not transfer to the new owner until after the last land contract payment has been made.

I believe a *recorded* land contract would still show Person A as the holder of the deed until after the last payment was made on the land contract. This is unlike a mortgage, where the buyer would hold title to the land even though they won't pay off the mortgage for 15-30 years.

Our HOA would be okay with naming Person B as the owner if the land contract was recorded.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> We think there could be some mortgage fraud going on

Fraud might not be the right word, however this is almost certainly a violation of the terms of the mortgage. If the mortgage holder finds out they are likely to demand immediate repayment of the principal.

CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Good point, Fred. I would also think the homeowner's insurance would be paid by the mortgage company, and that the insurer does not know Person B is living in the house. That's probably getting off the topic of ownership, though.

It seems Persons A and B are involved in a transaction that puts both of them at risk.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Death and Taxes are the two things assured in life... A trip to your county's tax assessor's office can help sort this out. Though those records may not be in real time. The transaction had to have happen in that year. Just need to know the lot number of the property. They should be able to tell you the rest.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This also sounds like a possible "Rent to own" situation. We had one of those in our HOA. The owner held 2 mortgages. They were having the new tenant/owner pay off their second mortgage for them while they held the first mortgage. The first mortgage had the deed attached to it. So when it was paid off, the owner would have owned the deed to the home. The second mortgage holder would not. It would be up to the first owner/mortgage holder to give the second owner the deed at their will.

So the second mortgager is at BIG risk because the first mortgagee could decide just to say the property was "Rental" and not hand over the deed to the second owner. Thus having them pay off their second mortgage for them. This is the WORST case scenario if the owner "A" is kind of crooked in nature. However, most owners are not crooked like this. They just may be treating the property more like investment property for tax reason. NOTHING crooked at all. It just makes ownership a bit "fuzzy" and the second owner/tenant unable to meet your HOA's requirement.

This may be a good thing for this situation for owner B to have this come to light. They may not realize the risk or situation they are in. I know this because the person our HOA foreclosed on was the "crooked" type. The second owner did sue the first owner in court and won their money back. We had to testify in court over this. That was the extent of the HOA's involvement. Otherwise these two need to work this situation amongst themselves. NO HOA INVOLVEMENT!!!

Former HOA President
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
What does it say in your governing documents regarding ownership and membership? Look for definitions of owner and contract seller in your CC&Rs, as well as any statements regarding members and membership from your bylaws. My docs define all of that, as well as this statement in the bylaws: "If ownership is acquired but not of record...the person acquiring or succeeding to ownership shall present the Board of Directors of the Association evidence satisfactory to it of facts evidencing lawful ownership...".
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Crystal,

Usually a person purchasing property under a land contract (where the buyer does not receive a deed until the final payment has been made) is considered the owner for most purposes.

The issue here is the fact that neither the buyer nor the seller has recorded the contract and you are left speculating as to why.

Tim's advice that all the association needs to do is inform Person B that public records do not show him to be the owner is sound and you should leave it at that. Let the parties record the contract if he wishes to be considered the owner.

BTW, the buyer is rather foolish for entering into an unrecorded agreement. The buyer can make all his payments as agreed and the seller could default on his own mortgage payments, leaving both parties with nothing when the mortgage lender forecloses. I would not want a person who exercises such poor judgment on the board of my association.

CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Our problem in determining ownership of the property is getting curiouser and curiouser.

The owner of record (the person with two existing mortgages that predate the land contract) has threatened to sue me for what he calls "pursuing too far" into his personal life. I explained that the only documents I have seen are those that are publicly on file at the Register of Deeds.

I explained that my problem with accepting the land contract as proof of ownership is that he still has two mortgages that predate the land contract, and therefore are superior to the land contract. For that reason, we need to consider him the owner of record.

I should probably also mention that I've never seen the land contract.

This morning he sent a message stating that I've spent too much time on this and pointed out that the township records show the buyer (the guy who wants to be a trustee candidate) as paying the taxes. (This is true. The Township tax records do show that the buyer is paying the taxes.)

I explained (again) that determining ownership of HOA property is a routine task, one that I've done for eight years. Ownership is determined for all of our HOA properties, not only properties covered by a land contract. I explained that It is important to ensure that voting is restricted to those who are entitled to vote, and that only property owners or holders of land contracts serve as trustees. If I do not do my duty as secretary, votes can be challenged and the board can be exposed to liability for misconduct. I have a responsibility to try to protect our HOA.

In a phone conversation yesterday with the owner, he was polite but made quite a few contradictory statement. At first he said his bank was "fine with" him making a land contract, and then said that the fact that he owned his property "free and clear" allowed him to make a land contract.

In a message this morning, the buyer writes that with the county deeds search database, "any time a person may refinance or the bank sells a mortgage to another division or bank, a transaction line item will appear. It does not mean a second or third mortgage has been placed against the property." I don't know what is meant by this, but last night the buyer suggested that the Register of Deeds information was not correct.

So.. what do I do? I feel my primary duty is to my HOA and feel it would be inappropriate for me to take the word of the owner that he has legitimately and legally "sold" the property to the guy who wants to be a trustee candidate.

Do I cave to social pressure? This week the HOA President and I have received several angry e-mails about this issue, and there are suggestions that we're discriminating against the guy who wants to be a trustee candidate because we "don't like him".

-- stressed HOA secretary

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is whoever is paying the taxes on the property that is the owner as I've been told. Maybe your definition of ownership is in question? Mortgage holdings show up at the bank because money is still owed to them. That is what a mortgage is. Agreeing to pay the bank money for loaning it for a house. The bank most likely still owes the deed to the home and then gives it to the owner when they have obsolved their debt to them.

The mortgages you may be looking at may be incorrect to who is the owner. It's most likely who holds the tax lien that is the owner. Again go to the tax assessor's office and find out who's name is on that document.

Oh, and do not be threatened by a lawsuit threat. It's cheaper to counter sue than to sue. However, I may agree you are teetering on the edge of being a bit too nosy for comfort for this person. I'd back off and do the paperwork research.

Former HOA President
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Here's another way to ask the question.

Let's say the buyer won the lottery and was able to pay cash for the house. There's no land contract at all, recorded or unrecorded. The buyer has moved in, pays utilities and taxes, and considers the house his.

But - and this is a big but - there are still two mortgages against the property in the seller's name. Those mortgages predate the cash sale.

For this reason, our HOA would consider the seller as still being the owner of record. The seller is the only one connected to the property in the Register of Deeds records.

Does that make sense?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you a HOA or a POA? It could be there was a cash sale of the property. If it is who owns the property then they are the owner. Now as far as the "structure" on that property may be a different story. It could have a mortgage on it by someone else. Why? That is between the owners.

Now from knowing a bit of legal stuff... If someone posts bail for someone it is based on property and NOT the home that sits on it. A home can burn, get hit by a tornado, or be moved. That is why the courts typically use property ownership as basis of getting their money. Hence why I say the person with the tax lien is the owner.

It is unclear but did the owner A buy this property before the HOA formed? Afterwards build a house on it? Was there just a lot? A bit of confusion there.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Btw... Records are not updated in a timely manner... I still show up on records for vehicles I used to own years ago. Show up on my credit report even though paid off and sold. If you do not go and change some records it could take months to show up. When I bought my houses had to go register them at the tax assesors office myself for tax exemption status filing. Some people never take this step and shows up as last owner... The same with deeds... It does not change records immediately upon sales...

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Crystal

You all are being bullied. Make a ruling and stick to it. I say the name on the deed is the owner.

Now in some states the owner might could give a Power of Attorney for someone to represent them and I assume that might also mean qualify to run for the BOD in lieu of the owner.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
ditto JohnC46

whoever is named on the recorded deed
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
I see no other option than to determine that the owner is that person who is listed at the Register of Deeds. Not listed there? Not the owner. Simple.
ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244
Posted:
My question is why you are so determined to prevent him from serving? Would he not have to be elected? If a majority know his circumstances want him to serve, for gods sake let him. If he sucks, he will be voted out. He has a land contract and pays taxes on the property and thus a vested interest. Are you so overrun with volunteers that you are turning them away?
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Hi Valerie,

Actually, the opposite is true. As far as I know, everyone currently on the board, including me, would love for this person to be able to serve as a trustee. He's enthusiastic, hard working, and fair-minded.

Our HOA doesn't have a problem with the seller retaining the deed. We understand that in a land contract, the seller retains legal title while the buyer is given equitable title. Legal title is turned over to the buyer after the terms of the land contract are fulfilled. This is unlike a mortgage, in which legal title is transferred to the buyer at closing.

As much as we’d like to, we cannot say the mortgages “don’t matter” or disregard their legal connection to the property. The property is collateral for the mortgages. The bank has a legal claim to the property and does not permit the sale of the property until the loans are paid off.

And, I still have not seen the land contract. Everything I've been told so far has been verbal. Zero documents have been shown that support the member's claim that he is the owner.
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalK1 on 06/07/2013 9:05 AM

This morning he sent a message stating that I've spent too much time on this and pointed out that the township records show the buyer (the guy who wants to be a trustee candidate) as paying the taxes. (This is true. The Township tax records do show that the buyer is paying the taxes.)

So, if I have my tax bill mailed to my accountant, does that mean my account owns my home?
CrystalK1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
The "who pays the taxes" argument is nonsensical.

Township tax records are not used to determine ownership. Our Township accepted the buyer's land contract so he would qualify for the Principal Residence Exemption on his property taxes. The Township accepted the land contract without knowing whether there were outstanding liens (mortgages) that would take priority. The Township said that it does not determine ownership or verify information with the Register of Deeds. Anyone could request to be named a taxpayer and put in for a change of address at the Township. The named taxpayer is not necessarily the owner.

My mortgage company pays my taxes, always has.

If the "who pays the taxes" argument were valid, we could go around paying other people's taxes and then saying we owned their properties.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
An HOA has the responsibility to include the owners of properties. Ownership is not always of record. For example a property can be acquired by a judgment, a death, or a dissolution. The first place to look is in your bylaws. What is the specific language in your bylaws regarding membership of an owner in your HOA?

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