HOA and A/C Restrictions

Started by JohnT18 • 12 replies • 6125 views

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JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

We own a town home in Boulder Colorado. These were built in the 1970's without central air conditioning (when the weather was cooler in the summer). I want to install central air now to make the increasingly hot summers more enjoyable. My HOA has said I cannot do this since this will require an outside compressor under our deck and there are no products with a noise level below their requirements (most products are 70 dBa to 68 dBa). The requirement I am being handed sets a limit of 25 dBa (quieter than a soft wiser as described on one web site.

Does anyone know if it is legal for an HOA in Colorado to effectively prohibit central A/C by setting sound level requirements below any known product?

Sweltering in Colorado

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Do other homes in your development have air conditioning units?

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

Decibels are a logarithmic scale. The 25 dBa is an unreasonable requirement. In general however I don't think it is unreasonable to have a noise limit on compressors.

Is roof mount an option?

JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

One other unit in the complex has central air installed. This was done some years ago and I do not believe the system has been operated for the last decade. I have asked about this situation and have not heard back from the HOA. Given how old the system is, its noise level is sure to be greater than the one I propose.

Other A/C solutions in the complex are wall mounted room units (we actually have one I want to remove since it is in the main bedroom and is so noisy inside). There are no other places to mount wall units because of the way the town homes are constructed. Other, free-standing solutions exist but they take up interior space and require a window or wall vent and are noisy as well.

A roof top installation might be possible but very difficult. I also expect the HOA would object but I should ask. The common roof situation would transmit low frequency vibration to our home and to others in the six unit section where we live.

What would be a reasonable sound level restriction? Where would it be measured relative to the compressor itself? I am trying to get engineering details on the measurement for the product I propose so I can see how loud it would be at various distances from it. If the product specification was measured one foot in front of the compressor, I understand the sound level at 10 feet would be 20 dB lower and so forth. If it was measured 10 feet in front of the compressor, one would have to be 100 feet away to get this drop. If anyone knows of additional technical help on these issues I can consult, I would appreciate that.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

a 'mini-split' ductless unit is your answer

you want a unit with 'DC inverter technogolgy'

i, personally, own a Mitsubishi 'Mr. Slim' with the compressor wall hung outside a bedroom ... when running one has to 'listen' for the soft hum

there are MANY other brands such as Samsung, LG, etc. ~ some even have the inside air handler disguised as a painting

ps. a reasonable sound restriction would be 49dBA @ 10'

JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I am considering a split system as an alternative. This would work on the main bedroom upstairs since there is already something on the outside wall in that area. It would not help for the front bedroom upstairs that actually gets even hotter in the afternoon and evening because the HOA will not allow any exterior fixtures on the front sides of the homes.

The central system is ideal since I am going to replace the gas furnace at the same time with a higher efficiency one.

This just in: The HOA is going to "measure" the noise level of the existing installation in our building. I just need to know what they are doing so I can compare that to the manufacturer's experimental arrangement for the compressor I am proposing.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> The HOA is going to "measure" the noise level of the existing installation in our building.

Having been involved with a dispute concerning the measurement of noise levels- this is fairly tricky and requires some professional knowledge. HOWEVER if you are comparing noise levels to a reference installation using a commercial instrument the results should be reasonably reliable.

They may be surprised at the existing ambient noise level. WITHOUT air conditioners.

JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I have been doing some Internet research and realize these measurements are difficult specifically if there is no reference standard. I am waiting to hear what instrument is to be used and the setup defined to make any measurements. I have read that one needs to take several measurements that include some from the positions where neighbors would be hearing the noise. I also have found some "rules of thumb" for correcting for background noise depending on how high it is relative to the compressor noise. I have also been trying to find some (free?) software I can use on my Mac to convert it into an sound pressure level meter just to get some feel for these measurements. I would rather not buy an instrument for just this problem (and I don't have a rock band that needs any setup measurements!).

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredS7 on 05/24/2013 11:26 AM
They may be surprised at the existing ambient noise level. WITHOUT air conditioners.

Good point. Even in a totally rural environment it is always surprising how much background noise there is.

Is the 25dba standard on an absolute scale as measured in a sound-proof labratory or is it 25bda higher than the background noise of the real world?

JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I am quite sure the 25 dBa number is gibberish picked up from some brochure for a totally different product (e. g. the interior fan noise of a split system perhaps). I seem to be forcing them to actually address the problem form a technical perspective. I will not go away quietly on this and we will all be the better for it. Please note: I have also served my time on HOAs so I have split sympathies.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

there are 'mini-split' systems with more than 1 air handler (inside unit) from 1 compressor (outside unit) available

they are called 'multi zone systems' ~ they require PROFESSIONAL design and installation as the tubing needs to run PROPERLY according to SPECIFICATIONS not merely according to CODE

for comparison only, not for SPAM or recomendation:

http://www.mitsubishipro.com/en/professional/residential-applications/building-applications/renovation-and-addition

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I just wanted to add that one should not install an unit that will sit under their deck. This is not a good idea and can cause many issues. The outdoor unit does not need any structures blocking it's intake or exhaust. Plus it could damage your deck. So maybe be aware of a better location to install a unit.

Former HOA President

JohnT18 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I will add this information to my split system "folder", thanks.

The proposed system for me will use a "side flow" compressor that takes air in one side and sends it out the other. I agree the convention upward flow compressors will not work under a deck (although the neighbor in question did this but put a grill area in the deck to permit air to move normally). It will still be important to make sure air can flow freely even in the horizontal fashion. The manufacturer claims they can be mounted as close as a foot from a wall but aI will provide more clearance.

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