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JuneS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Recently there was a heated discussion in my HOA when it was learned the Board authorized funding to clear cut property that adjoins a homeowners property (600sf). The Board moved forward with the project even though the homeowner did not give permission, using a Boy Scout troop to do the labor, after two professional landscapers said they would not do the project without written permission from the homeowner.

The homeowner challenged the Board and it was quietly agreed to replant the homeowners section of the property at the HOA's expense (about $2,000)

Some homeowners got together and sent a letter to the Board and Property Management Firm acknowledging that what is done is done and asked the Board to enact a Policy that restricts HOA funds for common ground projects only and prohibits the use of HOA funds for any work on a homeowner's property with or without the homeowner's approval.

The Board is pushing back and threatening to restrict committee access to anyone who supports this policy.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
The HOA directed the landscaper on the scope of work and a mistake was made. The mistake was corrected even if the board didn't like confessing to the correction ...and the cost of replanting the private portion of the property.

Despite the mistake, I'd be wary of a blanket ban on how the HOA uses funds because you may see a property in your neighborhood sorely neglected to the point that the exterior aesthetic situation is hurting your property value. The HOA, oftentimes, may clean the yard and assess the property owner for the cost of the job as a last resort. Your proposal would eliminate that option of property maintenance, which will cause you grief.

I think you'll rue the day you backed a permanent solution to - what appears to be - a one-time, if expensive mistake by the landscaper. I recommend being vigilant as you already are.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Sounds like it's time to recall or not reelect the Board.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Most every CC&R has some language to the effect that the HOA may enter a property to cure a violation and charge it back to the homeowner. What it doesn't say is that in many jurisdictions this is also called trespassing. Now it can be done but it needs to be done properly; violation notice, fine etc and if that is ignored a court order giving the HOA the right to enter and remedy, then it's not trespass.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
A charge of trespassing is not applicable when the a private contract between the homeowner and the HOA allows the HOA to enter the exterior of a property. I believe this should be strictly limited and transparently handled with the property owner.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
With respect Kelly, CC&R's give Boards the rights to do a lot of things but they must still follow the law to do so. RogerB even recommends: PLUS at the time of entering the property have a sheriff or police officer present along with the contractor and the managing agent or a Board member. Because: Homeowners can get very upset and do violent things which they later regret when trespass occurs to correct their violation.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
The CC&R's are a civil contract, trespass is a criminal matter. If the homeowner decides to press charges you can wave the CC&R's at the responding officer all you want and his/her most likely response will be: "Tell it to the judge."

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Glen, if I sign a contract with you stating you may inspect the exterior portions of my property - with cause - it is not trespassing. Of course, some HOAs may not include such provisions in their documentation but some do possess the option. However, the HOA does not possess unlimited power to meddle. There are limits.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Besides, Glen, what would you do? Declare a Citizen's Arrest? You go tell a judge the HOA guy "trespassed" on an overgrown lot. Yes, I'll wave the CC&Rs and offer other documentation.

This bigshot "I'll take you to court and sue" bit for every other thread on this forum is tired.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/22/2013 2:52 PM
With respect Kelly, CC&R's give Boards the rights to do a lot of things but they must still follow the law to do so. RogerB even recommends: PLUS at the time of entering the property have a sheriff or police officer present along with the contractor and the managing agent or a Board member. Because: Homeowners can get very upset and do violent things which they later regret when trespass occurs to correct their violation.


While I agree that many docs give the association the "right" the enter the property to inspect, correct, whatever, I would not do so without the presence of law enforcement as a safety precaution.

Like I was once told while being fired and I claimed I was right. I was told yes you were right, but you were dead right. You are still fired.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 05/22/2013 7:06 PM
Glen, if I sign a contract with you stating you may inspect the exterior portions of my property - with cause - it is not trespassing. Of course, some HOAs may not include such provisions in their documentation but some do possess the option. However, the HOA does not possess unlimited power to meddle. There are limits.

We're not talking about inspecting, we're talking about entering the property with the intent to effect change. I doubt you could get a reputable contractor to enter a property the HOA didn't own, for they could be held accountable too. Remember the HOA in the OP, couldn't get their contractor to do it and ended up getting a scout troop to do it. Oh and they ended up paying the owner of property money to replace items they ordered cleared. Self help much like do it yourself dentistry rarely has a good outcome.

Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 05/22/2013 7:08 PM
Besides, Glen, what would you do? Declare a Citizen's Arrest? You go tell a judge the HOA guy "trespassed" on an overgrown lot. Yes, I'll wave the CC&Rs and offer other documentation.

This bigshot "I'll take you to court and sue" bit for every other thread on this forum is tired.

I would call the police and have the person arrested but I have had neighbors crazy enough to pull guns.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
There are covenants that permit a HOA to enter a property and make changes but I also agree that a procedure must be followed if those covenants are in place. My neighborhood tried amending their documents to allow this authority. It stated the board can make changes on a property. It also stated the HOA can declare an emergency and enter a property without notice, make the changes, and bill the homeowner. I felt that the wording was extremely vague and was a great expansion of power. There was one instance where the HOA tried to use this power. After the hurricanes a few years back a homeowner replaced their roof with an expensive metal roof. The HOA determined it was not aesthetically pleasing and demanded the roof removed and replaced with a shingle roof. The homeowner refused and the HOA took them to court.
The court ruled against the HOA.

They could not get a contractor who would step foot on a homeowners property and tear up a perfectly good roof.

The problems I saw with a covenant like that is liability, cost, and subjectivity. Who is liable if an injury occurs? Who determines what is and is not an emergency, or what is or is not aesthetically pleasing? Another issue was that when the HOA tried amending their documents and collected signatures, nobody read the documents they were carrying.

They would tell people it was just a routine procedure and they were changing the documents to update them and that it was only $100. When I would tell homeowners about this amendment they would argue that it was not in there and that the HOA can not do that.

Personally I think that if a property is that bad - overgrowth, etc. Code enforcement will step in and do their job. Where I live the county will charge the homeowner for clean up and the costs are minimal - it was something like $0.16 a yard to mow and $1 for tire removal.

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