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JennyO (West Virginia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
For our property owners association in West Virginia, the secretary produced the minutes for the Fall property owners meeting FIVE months after the meeting. I was unable to attend the Fall meeting, and three months after the meeting I requested them, she responded that she is working on them.
They were finally provided five months after the Fall meeting, and 18 days before the Spring property owners meeting.

We have just had our Spring meeting, and after the meeting, the president asked her to provide them within two weeks. Her emailed response was that she would do so. Two weeks are past and they have still not been provided. She has not responded to her last request for the minutes.

Can someone else, such as the President, provide the minutes?

I know it is rude to her and will likely infuriate her, but is this illegal?
Are there any guidelines on how to address this matter?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Typically minutes of one meeting are prepared and presented at the following meeting of the same type (Board to Board, Membership to Membership). Unless your governing documents or State statutes specify otherwise, the minutes don't have to be ready until the actual following meeting.

Perhaps your Secretary doesn't have enough time available to get things done quickly. To have things happen quicker, why don't you offer your services to pitch in and help with some of the duties. This would then provide your Secretary with more time to complete the draft minutes quicker.
JennyO (West Virginia)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I have offered to help, and the secretary refused my help.
The President has written up the minutes, I have seen them and they look complete and accurate.
The President tells me he plans to send these out to the community next week. I fear all hell with break loose!

I also offered my assistance to the Treasurer and he gratefully accepted my help. He had a heart attack and quadruple heart bypass three weeks after I offered. A property owner complained that my assisting the Treasurer wasn't voted on and approved at a property owners meeting and that I don't have the necessary authorization to assist him.

There is a control thing going on. The Board is split - the President and Treasurer are there to serve the community. The Maintenance Coordinator (husband) and Secretary (wife) not so much. Not producing the minutes is just one of the many complaints I have.

If the minutes include the members voting and approving funds to be spent on the common area, then is this covered by WV Code chapter 36
ยง36B-3-103.
(c) Within thirty days after adoption of any proposed budget for the common interest community, the executive board shall provide a summary of the budget to all the unit owners,

I have never seen a written budget for the community, and I don't believe one exists. They just vote at the meetings on whether funds should be allocated to a particular job and the Maintenance Coordinator gets a contractor to do they work. They often go over the amount voted on at the property owners meeting.

So if there is no written budget for the association, and the funds were voted on and approved at the meeting, which was attended by about 60% of the owners, then would the minutes which is the only record of this expense be required to be published within the 30 days?

What about if the President asked the Secretary to produce the minutes within two weeks, and she agreed?
Can the President say she didn't get them done in time, so he has kindly offered to do them for her and just send them out to the community.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
State HOA or corporate laws, your Declaration or CCRs, or your bylaws may specify a period of time after a meeting when the minutes for that meeting must be available. The Declaration and bylaws for our HOA require that minutes be available 15 days following the meeting.

Check your state laws and governing documents to see if there is any similar requirement.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
a motion to approve, a 'second', possible corrections, and a vote are necessary BEFORE the minutes are final
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Believe it or not, the President can NOT do the Secretary's job. It is written in the responsibilities of each office. The vice-president does not necessarily take over for the president if they quit/die either. The Vice-President can just hold the meeting if the President can not make it. It is a corporate set up and not government in regards to office positions. So you may want to read the responsibilities section of each office.

We have meetings once a month. So the notes could not be ratified officially until the next meeting. That is because the board had to approve them before they became official. Since we only had meetings together once a month the notes were always off a month. We lost our secretary half way through the year. So even though I took notes and posted them after the meetings. They were NOT the official notes of the HOA. I used them as "Updates from the President" instead. The real notes should have been stamped with the corporate seal.

Former HOA President
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 05/15/2013 9:17 AM
a motion to approve, a 'second', possible corrections, and a vote are necessary BEFORE the minutes are final

Not according to Roberts Rules. All the president has to do is ask if there are any corrections to the minutes. If there are none, the president can declare them approved as submitted. If there are corrections and after it is obvious to the president that all corrections have been made, the president can declare the minutes approved as corrected. (RONR, 11th ed., pp 354-55; "A formal motion to approve the minutes is not necessary...")

Of course, all this takes place at the next meeting following the meeting the minutes of which are being "approved."
SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
This topic brings up a comment and a question.

My comment is that whomever is preparing the minutes should prepare the minutes as soon after the meeting as practical. As an administrative assistant for over 20 years, I have found that preparing the minutes shortly after the meeting helps ensure their accuracy. I take notes but my notes also jog my memory of what was said and done at the meeting even if the minutes are not reviewed and approved until a month or more later. From a member's perspective, I would think 10 days to 2 weeks to be a reasonable time for the minutes to be ready for review. Certainly no longer than a month should go by.

My question is about revising minutes that have already been read and approved. I discovered some inaccuracies in some minutes that had been read and approved. I approached the president about changing the minutes to correct the inaccurate information. He said once the minutes were read and approved they could not be changed. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Couple of things:

1st, when members may review minutes often is in the bylaws or state laws. In my state, and I hope it goes without saying, but not necessarily in others, owners may review draft minutes (stamped as such) 30 days after the relevant meeting.

As a practical meeter, it makes sense for the secretary PM or whoever to write them as soon as practical for the reason Sharon notes.

Sharon, if your board adheres to Robert's Rules, your president is wrong--minutes may be corrected at any time after they've been approved. Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th ed., p. 475.
SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 05/15/2013 5:54 PM

Sharon, if your board adheres to Robert's Rules, your president is wrong--minutes may be corrected at any time after they've been approved. Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th ed., p. 475.

Thank you Carol. The board is supposed to adhere to Roberts Rules but in my association its the Presidents rules as he makes things up as he goes along.

I never pushed the issue because I decided not to fight that battle as the inaccurate information was not that significant. It was significant to me at the time, because there were false statements made about me and my husband that were recorded in the minutes.
SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 05/15/2013 5:54 PM

Sharon, if your board adheres to Robert's Rules, your president is wrong--minutes may be corrected at any time after they've been approved. Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th ed., p. 475.

Thank you Carol. The board is supposed to adhere to Roberts Rules but in my association its the Presidents rules as he makes things up as he goes along.

I never pushed the issue because I decided not to fight that battle as the inaccurate information was not that significant. It was significant to me at the time, because there were false statements made about me and my husband that were recorded in the minutes.

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