Homeowner's with BIG issues with our Board...

Fiona

Apprecite your serving and I can understand your frustraton. One action might be to listen but say the BOD has to have a formal complaint/reference/statement, etc. to take any action.

When asked why you cannot be their voice, reply that I share your concern and I want to help you. The problem is that you are concerned you will get the reputation of always raising issues/problems based on hearsay. Tell them they need to get the ball rolling before you could help them. Notice the "could".....you can also say this when you disagree with them and will not help them...LOL

Yes it is frustrating.

Welcome, Fiona. With Melissa, urge the complainers to put their "ideas for improve,met" in writing to the entire board via the board president or your property mgr. if you have one. Let them know that the relevant person (pres. or PM) needs to receive it in enough time to go on the next open meeting agenda for the board to discuss. As you know, fiona, agenda must be posted 4 days before an open meeting of the board.

By putting their requests in writing, they will think through the issues and, we can hope, they'll present them coherently even if they cannot attend in person.

Encourage these owners to get copies of the meeting minutes so that they're up to date on what's been going on at board meetings.

I would tell these folks that you simply cannot listen to their problems anymore or else, Fiona, you'll push yourself off the Board again. You must be firm and insist that you are only one voice and one vote and no one can explain their issues to the Board except for them.

I assume by DSA, you mean the Davis- Stirling Act? I don't know any non-board members who've even heard of it let alone know anything about it. Few directors understand it. What aspect of it matters to you at this time?

Fiona,

The issue is trust between these discontented owners and the HOA board and that will take time - a couple of years - to restore IF your current board is willing and is led by the right person for the job.

#1: Homeowners will never attend the meetings, so give them an option to receive the latest and greatest information. Email is free and concerned homeowners will, at least, opt-in for the source of information (but the board must want to communicate).

#2: Someone on the board, with credibility, must communicate the limits that law places on your HOA board. Communicate.

#3: These homeowners trust you and you'll not convince them to trust the sitting board members immediately. Be open, listen to them, note their concerns IF they raise conflicts of policy or rules that the HOA board is ignoring. A rule is a rule that's broken or not. Keep your commitment their service to the business at hand and not personal animosity...stay clear of that. In this regard, communicate bona fide issues to the HOA board that affect the community-at-large - not individualized cases.

#4: It is simply a TERRIBLE idea to allow an arm-chair board member to make leadership decisions from out of state when they are in zero position to serve the community and can not work locally. HOA directors who don't or cannot serve the community can only be tyrants.

#5: If your long-winded neighbor has good ideas, take them and present them. You chose to lead as a representative of the home owners. Serve them on issues affecting more than two people. See #3.

#6: You are not a sponge. Give them an email address to reach you but don't discuss HOA business verbally. You might "misunderstand" them verbally while a written proposal makes them think and articulate. It will save you hours of chatter.

It seems these neighbors like you, trust you and are willing to vent on you until they've "been heard." Fair enough. If it's overwhelming, back away. You're only a volunteer. Don't forget that.

Also, the trend you're seeing in these homeowners may be more reflective of a trend of business behavior/responsiveness of the board of directors. Happy dues payers don't praise you. They're silent.

Well said.

Fiona:

In life you teach people how they can or should treat you. Seems to me in your case you need to set boundaries as to what you are willing to do and in this case what your role as a Board member is. You are NOT the private messenger or complaint recorder for a small group of owners or have neither the time nor the motivation to WORK on any of this.

IF you continue to let them bring up issues and fail to shut them down you have no place complaining. Best IMO to shut this down the very first time rather than allowing such behavior to take place and then somewhere down the road trying to change it.

I myself do not give out my telephone number, nor my e-mail. I do not accept visits at my door. I once recieved a letter to my home and stopped over and hung it on the door on the unit owner with a note that my address was not that of the MC and no further mail should be addressed to my home.

Time to set some people straight and not let them try to sue you to air their gripes.

Now on the subject of non-resident Board members. IMO unless the documents prevent their service one should not conclude they are incapable of doing their job. Especially coming from the opinions of those owners who can't be bothered to attend monthly meeting while they themselves live on the property. Over the years we have had several non-resident Board members. Living on the property does not give any advantage to the Board members over those who might live off-site. And in some areas with vacation properties tough sometimes to find others willing to volunteer. Our current Board Treasurer lives in another state. She has served for more than 10 years. She has done an amazing job handling all of our accounts and finances. A job I might add no one currently serving could duplicate! I or anyone else would be a fool to ask that she step down. She also owns multiple units on the property so her interest is claer that the property remain in good standing. In today's world where many corporations operate around the world and somehow communicate what needs to be done on a daily basis physical location would simply not matter. I would rather have a non-resident Board member who does their job versus a resident owner who does ZIPPO.

To suggest someone living elsewhere or someone who travels on business, cannot be effective in their service is nonsense.

My first question would be what type of job are they doing rather than do they live on the property? My guess for those simpleminded few who think Board servcie requires residence well they themselves have never served or taken part in something they now wish to impose their views on.

Fiona I would see these FEW folks as lazy, ignorant, loudmouths and treat them going forward as such. And better for them not to call me while I am on vacation about what they think..............

Okay I may be a bit harsh here. However, I've heard this speech before from others. If you volunteer for a board position then you have to encompass that position. It is a lifestyle change and adaptation. You have to live and breath it or you die coughing and with no air. Which is what I feel you are doing. Your coughing right now.

It's like being a doctor at a cocktail party. Everyone has a strange bump they want you to take a look at. It's natural and that's what the job is about. You take responsibility and recognize you are going to have people come up to you with ideas or complaints once your a board member. Heck, I did not have to leave my house without some kind of issue coming up to deal with. Rain nearly turned me into tears as that meant about 5 calls on flash flooding I had to resolve in the pouring rain. (Some were very serious though).

What kind of board member are you going to be if you don't want to give out your phone number? It was a requirement in my HOA to post names and phone numbers of board members on the bulletin board. We were an OPEN HOA who if you had questions you could ask any of us to bring it to the meeting.

Here is the harsh part. Get out of being a board member if your not willing to recognize what the job all entails. You were to be elected to be the voice of the general membership. That means they must share their voice with you to be heard. Otherwise your going into those board meetings for your purpose and views only. Not fair and not what you were elected to do.

I say either figure out how to adapt your life and accept you are a board member and represent or get out of the way. Do you think congress people you call to make laws don't get the same thing everyday? Your in a position now accept it.

I'm thinking that in self managed HOAs with little complexity, directors would tend to be approached by non-directors a lot more than large, complex HOAs with property managers.

But either way, as volunteers, directors are not like salaried congressional reps or city council members. Many HOA volunteers hold full-time jobs, are caregivers, and try to serve their communities too! In any case, directors deserve the same kind of privacy in their homes that non-directors enjoy. Along with Jon, directors need to make boundaries.

Again, in self-managed HOAs, I can see that common area emergencies would arise that need a board member's action. But I disagree that eating, drinking and sleeping with the HOA constantly on the director's mind is a job requirement. If, however, total immersion suits a director's personality & own needs and goals, fine, go for it. But no one should be compelled to act that way. One size does not fit all.

And homeowners should be encouraged to be citizens of their communities and speak for themselves; not whiny, passive bystanders. As a director, I'd never go to a board meeting and say, "Mr. X wants us to wash our [high rise] windows three times a year instead of two." Let Mr. X put on his big-boy pants and ask the board himself in person or in writing. Our Board also always listen sincerely to owners's suggestions.

Fiona, I'm curious: what size is your community? How many on the board? Is there a Property Mgr.? What is your opinion of the performance of the distant director?

My apologies, Sharon, I had no idea that Iowans are not permitted to attend HOA Board meetings! I cannot imagine such a scenario.

In Fiona's & my state of CA (and in many--most?--others), all owners may, by law, attend board meetings. Ours are once a month at a regular time & place on our premises. Owners are reminded with notices four days in advance of the meetings. Owners also are regularly invited to contribute items to the agendas.

In our HOA, we only have three whiners out of 211 units, so not bad. And they don't snivel very often.

Melissa

I have to ask where does it say my job includes having people knock on my door at home to air their complaints? Now if YOU wish to require that of yourself fine but please don't suggest with a straight face that is required of all Board members.

I never read that part. And speaking for myself the role you describe is filled by the paid position of MC. Our MC is paid to be available to take comments and handle owner complaints on a day to day basis. Not the individual Board members who volunteer their time. My HOME is not the MC office.

And we are not required to give out nor do we provide our personal contact information. You could if you wanted to but we choose not to do so.

Just how long DID you serve in your community? And do you now serve on a Board?
I have 26 years of service and I do not feel that Board service has to become YOUR life. IMO you have to keep both separate unless you enjoy being the center of attention 24X7.

And you suggestion that the people in Congress deal with similar roles is quite interesting. Do you not think they have staff who answer the phones and deal with individual voters taking complaints or suggestions? Last time I checked the members of Congress get paid. Quite well. And do you really think you would ever be able to call them at home or arrive at their door uninvited and demand they hear you out? For many reasons it should be obvious HOA Board members do not equate to members of Congress. IMO that suggestion is simply silly.

These owners are not coming to Fiona because they respect her or trust her quite the contrary. They are coming to her in the hopes she will do what they tell her to do. They hope she will be willing to carry their water and issues while they sit back and do nothing. They see her as a way to bypass the normal process of participation. SHOW UP AT A SCHEDULED MONTHLY MEETING! Not knocking on her front door uninvited to complain about Board members serving who don't live on the property while they have no clue as to what those Board members do. Nor do they consider as owners these Board members have the SAME rights as they do.

It always amazes me how some folks come to believe what THEY do or how it is done in their community or state now is the model for all HOA communities. As if because they say so there is just one way of doing it right. And in many cases their communities and states seem to have the most issues ongoing. Almost like some sort of religious zealot who accepts just THEIR God and all others are less.
Why not be open-minded enough and confident enough to handle your own affairs as you and your communities see fit and let the rest of us do the same.

I get concerned when people start to preach about how things SHOULD be because they say so. And of not anyone else is wrong or less right then they are.

A little high and mighty for my liking.......................

Carol while I understand you believe how things are done in Ca. is the end all be all for HOA governance some just might not agree.

And if you were not aware Iowa does not require open meetings perhaps you might consider the possibility there might be other things you don't know.

So how some way other states with HOAs operate day to day without YOUR requirements. Imagine that.

Myself I cannot imagine having to pull out a written set of guidelines in order to read how, when and why for every issue that comes before our Board. Especially, when the guidelines were drawn up by a law professor and passed by the California legislature.

Here in NY we are not required to hold open monthly meetings. But if you folks in California choose to do it differently fine just hold back on looking down your nose as if what you do is the only RIGHT way of handling things.

Some people NEED guidelines to follow because left on their own tough to make decisions and think things through. With the gift of Davis-Stirling someone tells you how every situation should and shall be handled takes the Board members off the hook for any decisions they might have to make because DS made us do it.
Some people NEED religion to set standards for their behavior other require government to tell them who, what, when, where and why. Problem for me would be who wrote the book, why and just what was their agenda.

Somehow, someway for the 26 years I have served we have muddled our way through without the likes of DS. I know you can't imagine that but try.

Nila,

It is true that some members of Associations have chosen to take their issues to the press and public at large. As I have said in the past there are consequences (intended and unintended) associated with every decision that is made. As you have pointed out in your posting, one of the consequences for going to the press may be lower property values caused by the perception of potential buyers who choose to purchase elsewhere based on those stories. Therefore, the member who goes to the press must be willing to accept that potential consequence for their action.

When I had issues in my Association, I chose to publicize those issues but only to the membership. This helped to educate the members, allowing them to make more of an informed decision when casting votes, and minimized the potential consequences of lower property values caused by taking the issues outside of the Association.

Personally, I believe the issues in Associations are allowed to grow because members become apathetic. If members stay active in their Association, even if it's just by attending meetings and asking questions, then many of the issues that are published could be resolved within the Association.

In my opinion every member, be they the chief complaining officer or not, should be listened to and every complaint should be addressed. However, most board members are volunteers and only have, or are willing to dedicate, x amount of time to perform those duties. Therefore, not every complaint can be addressed to the satisfaction of the complainer without additional assistance from others.

Tim

Jon said:

It always amazes me how some folks come to believe what THEY do or how it is done in their community or state now is the model for all HOA communities. As if because they say so there is just one way of doing it right. And in many cases their communities and states seem to have the most issues ongoing. Almost like some sort of religious zealot who accepts just THEIR God and all others are less.
Why not be open-minded enough and confident enough to handle your own affairs as you and your communities see fit and let the rest of us do the same.

Well said.

Jon & John46: I only mentioned CA's Open Meeting Act to apologize to Sharon because I didn't know that Iowans in HOAs can be kept out of board meetings if open meetings aren't required by their bylaws. In such states, I'd expect owners to stop me and other directors to ask questions or make requests.

This would especially be the case, I imagine, if the HOA doesn't have a property manager.

Fiona: do remember that CA also requires an open forum at board meetings. If an owner doesn't want to complain in writing, they can attend a meeting and speak during open forum. Your board can decide how long owners may speak, etc.

Nila: While I'm sure that abusive boards exist, please don't paint all of us hardworking and responsive board members with one brush. I've been serving for 6-1/2 years. It's very true that prior to that, the board here was very secretive and also incompetent, but then I & others got elected and were able to turn everything around in one year once we 'good guys" were a majority on the Board.

Nila I choose to live my life not with what ifs or in fear of what might happen. And I can't concern myself with what some ignoramous might do.

Seems from reading some of your other posts you have decided HOAs themselves are the problem. And that government rules and laws is the answer. I have a tough time believing any of that.

And then you go on to talk about First Amendment Rights and the US Constitution. Seems to be the battle cry of the anti-HOA zealot brigade.
You see in many cases zealots can't simply handle their own personal issues and situations they need to spread the doctrine in many cases while their own homes are burning to the ground.

Now this is just me but if my home or community were in flames I would concentrate on putting that fire out before wasting valuable time getting new laws passed in the state house. And now it appears you plan to spread your version of right to other states. While you own property sinks further. Not for me...........

Are there some bad HOA Boards? My guess the odds would suggest the answer to be yes. Is the problem as you see it with the Boards and MCs?
To place blame simply on their laps is IMO very short sighted.

The root of the problem is with the owners. Those who sit back and think someone else will take care of their investments. The owners who allow Boards to run wild and sit at home and complaing but haven't the backbone to do anything.

You see I dealt with that when I joined this Board. Bunch of low-life, self dealing mental midgets who were given the keys to the property by the do nothing, see nothing, hear nothing, ask nothing owners.

I decided to use the tools I had to change things. Took me 14 years to wake enough people out of their collective coma. I did not seek the government's doing MY job to clean house for me. My opinion MORE government involvement is NOT the answer. Just more laws that day to day will never be enforced. I prefer the old school way, do what needed to be done. But in most cases that requires effort and a willingness to get your hands dirty and maybe making a few enemies. Most people would rather sit back and complain and look around for someone else to what they can't do for themselves.

Have you ever served on an HOA Board? I have read about your years of volunteer work and thousands of hours working in sales but IMO serving on an HOA Board would be a unique position. From one of your other posts you no longer attend Board meetings on your own property. Because someone else keeps you updated. But you worked to pass a new law in Kansas passed in 2011. Has that new law changed anything on YOUR property to date? And if so for the better?

I get the impression you have allowed your one time living in an HOA with what you consider BAD issues to cloud your opinion on the thousands of other properties of which you know nothing.

You seem to hold ill will towards Board members, MCs and hold them alone responsible for your property's issues. And just what role if any do you play in the last 8 years? What are you and the other owners who sit back and allow this all to go on what is your duty? Anything? Or just to place blame?

Put your own fire out before you begin to tell others about how they should handle their own.....

I got rid of a group of bad Board members and two MCs so it is possible.
IF you are willing to do the work rather than finding fault and placing blame all day.

Well... I will say that I am humbled by the responses here!! I will only focus on what is going on in my life here at this time though. Really.... my goal is to get those homeowners who have a laundry list to come to a board meeting, bring thier concerns in writing, pictures and whatever they feel they need to do.

I will not do the following.

1.) Donate more than 5 minutes ( unless it's alife or death issue or urgent matter ) if someone comes to my door. My immediate response will be to get them to get to the point.. and if its like it's been in the past.. tell them. I understand your frustrations, I do, but you need to bring this yourself to the board. My speaking on your behalf does not carry the pull of power that you and your fellow homeowners have..

2.) Direct homeonwers to the management company with noise complaints, violation issues etc. I will NOT be the board member who brings a notebook to a meeting with neighbors complaints.

Not only are we all adults.. but we are all adult homeowners who are all investors in our HOA. If they can't speak for themselves.. I am NOT going to do it. Sorry.. my life is full enough just working on our budget.. lol

Jon, I'm very interested in how your out of state board member interacts with the board! We have a few off site board members, but they live in town. We also have a number of homeowners who live out of town and out of state - if there are some practical ways they can serve on the Board, I'd love to see if it could work in our Association.

Our Treasurer has more contact with our MC than any other member of the Board with the exception of me. E-mail, phone calls, our monthly packet and if needed you could us a conference call at your meetings. Pretty easy to set up.

Our Treasurer is sent every check and invoice each month by the MC for her review and approval. Her signature is required on any check issued by our property. She has online access to every one of our 9 accounts and can move money and perform transactions from her home or place of work.

Holding and maintaining more than 10 years of our financial records, having an understanding of who, what, when, where and why which could only be learned with YEARS of holding the position only an idiot would question her value or make a judgement that she should not be serving on our Board. And I am not an idiot. She holds up that end of the managment of our property and if the owners had ANY brains they would see just how valuable she is. My guess they have no clue.

My bottom line it is not where you live, how you dress or what you do after work that matters more important is how do you do your job. And if you do it well I will work to make any accomodation I can to keep you in that position. Rather than seeking justification to get your way at the expense of the property.

You figure out a way to make it work. If you can. That's where most people have a hard time.

Sounds like a plan to me. He can complain ony when it fits into HIS schedule and he has time.

People show you who and what they are, your job treat them accordingly.
He has shown you clearly what he is.....