community stuck in middle between developer and builder

We are new to living in a HOA community and not sure how it works exactly. Our situation is there is a disagreement between the builder and the developer in community and all building has been stopped for over 7 months now and it looks like no end in site. The developer has full control over how things are being done and how our HOA dues is spent. We have been asking for pool furniture and he refuses to give the authority for the HOA company to purchase them. The developer will not sign off any request that we send in for anything, weather it be pool furniture, fences exc.. I guess what we are wondering do we have any rights as a community. We would like to run the HOA ourselves but I'm not sure how we could go about this. Or do we just have to sit tight and wait for this dispute between builder and developer to come to and end. What happens we stop paying fees? We would hate to do that because there is a pool to maintain and the grounds. We are not sure where to turn to. Thanks

We have been trying to get several things done it took us 7 months to get a few street lights because the neighbor was being vandalized and the bus stops were unsafe. We would have to stand outside with flask lights to get the kids on the bus. He put a few lights in but not at the bus stops. Then all the lots that are were over grown with weeds so bad that you could not see around corners. I had been trying to work on the lot next to us so that cars could see the kids playing. He just moved them this week because we have been complaining for months about that. Then today we were told that the HOA sent letters to all the surrounding neighborhoods opening our pool for them to buy passes whats the point of having a HOA for our community if they are not looking out for us but it seems like it is just for the developers pocket. We are not sure what to do.

They are stand alone homes. Are other question is we want to know if we can request to see what bills are being paid out of the HOA funds. We have seen the yearly budget but we have concerns that the developer my being using money out of the HOA account to pay for the up keep of the vacant lots that he owns that is not common ground. The way we understand that we are only to be paying for the upkeep of common grounds such as the pool area and the front of the subdivision. It is Greenville area. Thanks again for your help.

John gives good advice. If you are all waiting for the developer to turn over the HOA to the owners, start doing some prep work now. You may not know the exact budget but you all can get an idea. It is simple math. A HOA is only funded by it's members for it's members.

It's a good idea to start early so you all get an idea of what expenses will be and plan what type of budget you all may face when it comes to all of you. Plus you all can start shopping around to get an idea of what new contractors will cost and how to plan accordingly. You just have to live under the developer's rules for now.

If you have read past postings you would know that you do not hire a Real Estate attorney for a HOA. A HOA is a corporation and deals with contracts. Your best off with a lawyer with a background of contractual laws or corporate/business. Plus suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So it's best to avoid a lawsuit altogether unless it is class action.

Good Morning Melissa,

I don't need to read any past postings to know that an CCR's that dictate life in an HOA and a real estate contract are best reviewed by an attorney who specializes in Real Estate. In my community, we have had numerous lawsuits including my own, each lawsuit has been won by the homeowner and the attorney they all used is a Real Estate Attorney. A Real Estate Attorney does know real estate contracts and the state laws that pertain to real estate transactions. He/she also is familiar with the CC&Rs of the community which is very important.

Why have we had so many lawsuits you may ask? I filed the first one to see the financial records because the board president was giving me a song and dance about why I could not see the audits that were required each year per the by-laws. It's a long story but the end result was this: The audits has not been done in 7 years! $10,000,000.00 (yes, that is TEN MILLION)was unaccounted for. In the midst of this "uncovering" I discovered the president had recently purchased two places in California and was running for the board there. He had also purchased two places in my HOA that he was using as rentals. He was telling lies upon lies. As we got closer and closer to the truth...he suddenly DIED! To this day that 10M is unaccounted for and that happened 5 years ago. A month after his death, we learned we had a massive amount of unpaid bills; water, sewer, trash, suppliers, two brand new trucks....and the list goes on and on. Exterior maintenance that was to be done by the HOA had not been done to the point the rotten siding was so bad the frames of the houses were also rotted. And the houses that he had supposedly had repaired...they put stucco over rotten siding!!!

With a dead president and massive debt, the new president hired a high-dollar property manager. He promised to save the day. His payroll is $400,000.00 per year. His employees have no skills. They receive better benefits than I did working for a Fortune 100 Company! One employee resigned and became a Whistleblower with photos and detailed documentation about the fact he was told to pull rotten siding off the houses and if the frames were damaged to not tell the homeowner! What did the board do? They renewed the PM's contract and gave him a raise of $200. per month!

A class action lawsuit, if won, has a pay out to every single homeowner involved. Why would somebody who has a problem with their personal property want any pay out to be split between them and their neighbors? Remember I said, I had filed lawsuits? The first was to see records that I never saw. The judge ordered the HOA to turn the records over but the president after the dead guy told the judge under oath there were no records. The VP claimed there were no bank accounts...none...zip...in a community bringing in over $100,000.00 per month is checks...no bank accounts. A year later, they were caught by a homeowner shredding records...claiming they had just found them. I had been told by the District Attorney to get a detective involved from the police department which I had done. When I called him to say records were found and they were shredding them he told me that was a lie because he had been in those records just two months after the judge ordered the records turned over to me. I opted not to take the board members back to court on perjury charges due to the legal expense, but I sure could have.

The second lawsuit was because the exterior of my house had rotten to the point the electric meter fell off. Yes, that right, fell off leaving a massive hole in the exterior wall during rain storm. I had water pouring through my house, ruining my finished basement and was spraying out the electrical breaker box!!! I sued for the damages based on Breach of Contract. I settled out of court with a gag order but I can say I am happy. Why would I have filed a class action suit so all my neighbors could have shared any settlement? I was the one with all the damage to my house.

I could write a book about my HOA. Literally, I could write a book, but I have opted to spend over 100 hours per week for over 5 years studying HOA's. I worked with the Kansas legislators to pass a bill into law to govern HOAs and give homeowner's rights in the State of Kansas. I have become part of a national movement to reform the HOAs and give homeowners rights. I know of what I speak because I have personally lived it and I have worked with other HOA members across America. A knowledgeable real estate attorney will always be my choice and my advice to hire for anyone with a legal issue involving an HOA. My first recommendation is for ALL situations to be resolved by discussion. Second would be with the involvement of a mediator. Third would be with a full blown lawsuit.

When dealing with unrealistic board members like I was...I had no choice but to sue. Here I was with a big hole in my house and a board member told me if I hired my own contractor and repaired my house the board was going to sue me and make me take the stucco off and put the wood rot back on! I assure you, no judge told me to do that. But that type of stupidity and ignorance on the part of the board members has successfully taken my community into the courtroom on multiple occasions. She expected me to sit here with a hole in my house with water pouring in to wait until the HOA got around to fixing it. Not to mention, I had a work order in at that point for over 3 years! Of course, with all the money being unaccounted for there was not going to be anybody coming any too soon to repair my house. My Real Estate attorney called it correctly, I had grounds for a BREACH OF CONTRACT lawsuit. The HOA had breached their own contract with me.

I was left with absolutely no choice but to sue my neighbors...and myself if you want to think of it that way, but I could not lose the entire house to a river running through it!

I hope with this lengthy explanation you will see I am not some dummy that just happened upon this website. I do hope you will reconsider some of your opinions.

NDR

Tim,

I so wish I could be the regulations of this website state I cannot disclose the name of an HOA and by posting the link that would happen. I can tell you this case was just settled (April 2013) by the judge after the jury trial took place in October 2012. Any attorney should be able to research for this case in Johnson County, Kansas and locate the case number and file. Key words would be...homeowners association and Kansas Consumer Protection Act. The jury determined the HOA was using deceptive practices but the judge would not allow the jury to determine whether the deception was in violation of the KCPA law. He took six months and made the statement that there had never been a case in the United States where the HOA was found guilty of violating a consumer protection law. He said this case was going to set a precedence. In the end, he did indeed find the HOA in violation of the KCPA law.

I know attorneys and HOA members from around the country were anxiously awaiting the outcome of this case.

I should add the attorney for the prevailing homeowner is a REAL ESTATE attorney. He's the same attorney I used in my two cases. He has never lost a case to the attorney that represents the board in my HOA, and that includes cases he's had with other HOAs in the Johnson County area where the HOA attorney just happens to be the same one my HOA uses. Not only is a extremely knowledgeable about the laws, he's the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Calm, cool, collected. The HOA attorney is a hot head and tries to intimidate the opposing litigate...it's ugly. I asked my attorney one day.."Do you ever get mad?" He said, "No, I just outsmart them." No truer words were ever spoken.

I am just so sorry I can't help this group with the name of a fabulous book, the case records of this lawsuit, and many other things but I'm a rule follower so I'll abide by the rules of this website. I'm sure you can find this information by doing internet searches. I'm sure it will be well-worth your efforts.

Have a wonderful day!

NDR

Tim,

If that's the case...here it is. You should know this homeowner tried resolve this issue with a mediator. The board absolutely refused and demanded a jury trial. They did that knowing that my case had been resolved with a mediator and the cases were nearly word-for-word exactly the same.

This is what bullies on the board looks like at $215.00 per hour. This is what stupidity does to an HOA community. This is how lives and financial well-being is lost all because a problem that should have been solved honestly and within a reasonable amount of time was not.

I hope this will have a visual impact on all HOA members and board members on this blog that think suing another member is the best and easiest way to fix a problem. In this case the homeowner had no other option. He's a very reasonable man, he did not want to push this to a lawsuit but the board would have it no other way. The HOA let his house rot to the point the frame had damage. They have already been caught two years before covering damaged frames and they were caught again on this one. All this was done by the high-priced property management company who had nothing whatsoever to lose. He was getting paid whether the HOA lost the lawsuit or not.

At this point the first entry you see here will be the date the judge will decide if/and or how much will be awarded to the homeowner for his legal fees. You can follow this case on www.jococourts.org simply type in Last Name: Lytle First: Phil and be sure to select "civil" before hitting "search."

NDR

05/07/2013 SCHED. OTHER HEARING on 05/29/13,11:15am,Div 14
04/25/2013 FILE STAMP 4/24/2013, ORDER (COURT FINDS KCPA APPLIES)
04/24/2013 Changed Case Status: From: PENDING To: CASE TERMINATED (SETTLED WITH JUDGE ACTION)
02/14/2013 FILE STAMP 02/14/13, MOTION AND ORDER REMOVING FROM DISMISSAL LIST
02/14/2013 FILE STAMP 2/14/2013, NOTICE AND ORDER OF PENDING DISMISSAL
02/14/2013 NOTICE AND ORDER OF PENDING DISMISSAL PER LOCAL RULE 6 MAILED TO PARTIES
01/16/2013 FILE STAMP 01/16/13, PLAINTIFF'S SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF HIS APPLICATION TO TAX HIS COSTS AND TO AWARD HIS ATTORNEYS' FEES
01/11/2013 FILE STAMP 01/11/13, DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S SUPPLEMENTAL OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFF'S APPLICATION FOR COSTS AND ATTORNEY'S FEES
12/26/2012 <******* Bench Notes *********>
PLF APPEARS WITH KRAFT, DEF APPEARS BY CONFER. 1) MOTION FOR JNOV DENIED 2) MOTION TO DETERMINE IF THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF THE KCPA IS A MATTER OF LAW- TAKEN UNDER ADVISEMENT. 3) ATTORNEY FEES WILL BE GRANTED IF THE COURT FINDS THERE IS A KCPA. JURY DECIDES IF THERE WAS A DECEPTIVE ACT- NOT IF KCPA IS PROVIDED FOR BY LAW. 4) THE ISSUES ARE: (A) IS LYTLE CONSUMER IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF BUSINESS. (B) IS QFCA A SUPPLIER. (C) CONSUMER TRANSACTION.(JUDGE: MORIARTY)
12/20/2012 FILE STAMP 12/20/12, PLAINTIFF'S REPLY TO DEFENDANT, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFF'S APPLICATION TO TAX COSTS AND ATTORNEY'S FEES AND IMPOSE A CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST DEFENDANT
12/20/2012 FILE STAMP 12/20/12, DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S REPLY IN SUPPORT OF MOTION FOR JUDGMEN NOTWITHSTANDING THE VERDICT
12/13/2012 CANCELLED OTHER HEARING on 12/21/12,09:15am,Div 14, WRONG SELECTION.
12/06/2012 FILE STAMP 12/05/12, PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR JUDGEMENT NOTWITHSTANDING THE VERDICT
12/05/2012 FILE STAMP 12/05/12, DEFENDANT'S OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFF'S APPLICATION TO TAX HIS COSTS, TO AWARD HIS ATTORNEY'S FEES, AND TO IMPOSE A CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST DEFENDANT
11/15/2012 FILE STAMP 11/15/12, PLAINTIFF'S APPLICATION TO TAX HIS COSTS, TO AWARD HIS ATTORNEY'S FEES, AND TO IMPOSE A CIVIL PENALTY AGAINST DEFENDANT
11/15/2012 FILE STAMP 11/14/12, DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION FOR JUDGMENT NOTWITHSTANDING THE VERDICT
11/15/2012 FILE STAMP 11/14/12, MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION FOR JUDGMENT NOTWITHSTANDING THE VERDICT
10/26/2012 FILE STAMP 10/25/2012, OATH OF BAILIFF
10/26/2012 FILE STAMP 10/25/2012, JURY INSTRUCTIONS (OFFICIAL COPY)
10/24/2012 <******* Bench Notes *********>
PLF APPEARS BY KRAFT, DEF APPEARS BY CONFER. JURY SELECTED-OPENING STATEMENTS MADE, PLF PERSENTS EVIDENCE, PL REST, MOTION BY DEF DENIED DEF PRESENTS EVIDENCE & RESTS. MOTION BY DEF DENIED. INSTRUCTIONS ARGUED INSTUCTIONS READ TO JURY. CLOSINGS GIVEN BY COUNSEL-VERDICT $18,000.00 BREACH OF CONTRACT. YES DECEPTIVE PRACTICE. JUDGMENT NOT FINAL UNTIL JUDGE RULES ON THE KCPA ISSUES. COURT REPORTERS AH OPENING, MW CLOSINGS & INSTUCTIONS, LC VERDICT(RPTR: HEARN)(JUDGE: MORIARTY)
10/24/2012 SCHED. OTHER HEARING on 12/21/12,01:30pm,Div 14
10/24/2012 SCHED. OTHER HEARING on 12/21/12,09:15am,Div 14
10/24/2012 FILE STAMP 10/23/2012, SERVICE RETURNED FROM SPECIAL PROCESS SERVER, SERVED WILLIAM REAVIS - 10/21/12
10/24/2012 FILE STAMP 10/23/12, DEFENDANT'S PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTIONS ON DAMAGES AND MODIFIED VERDICT FORM
10/24/2012 FILE STAMP 10/23/12, DEFENDANT QFCA'S MOTION FOR DIRECTED VERDICT AT THE CLOSE OF ALL EVIDENCE
10/24/2012 FILE STAMP 10/23/12, DEFENDANT QFCA'S MOTION FOR DIRECTED VERDICT AT THE CLOSE OF PLAINTIFF'S EVIDENCE
10/22/2012 FILE STAMP 10/22/12, DEFENDANT'S PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTIONS
10/22/2012 FILE STAMP 10/22/12, STIPULATED PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTIONS WITH CITATIONS
10/22/2012 FILE STAMP 10/21/12, PLAINTIFF'S PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTIONS WITH CITATIONS
10/19/2012 SUBPOENA ISSUED TO ATTORNEY FOR PROCESS SERVER "WILLIAM REAVIS" E/S
10/19/2012 SUBPOENA ISSUED TO ATTORNEY FOR PROCESS SERVER "JODY LAMPING" E/S
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12 04:06pm, REQUEST AND SERVICE INSTRUCTION FORM
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12 04:06pm, REQUEST AND SERVICE INSTRUCTION FORM
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12, SUBPOENA (WILLIAM REAVIS)
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12, SUBPOENA (JODY LAMPING)
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12, AMENDED PRETRIAL ORDER
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12, PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO EXCLUDE EXHIBITS
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/19/12, PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO EXCLUDE EXHIBITS
10/19/2012 FILE STAMP 10/18/12, DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO EXCLUDE EXHIBITS
10/18/2012 FILE STAMP 10/17/2012, SECOND SUPPLEMENT TO QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCATION'S FINAL EXHIBIT LIST
10/18/2012 FILE STAMP 10/17/2012, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; FOR MAILING
10/18/2012 FILE STAMP 10/18/12, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFF'S MOTIONS IN LIMINE
10/17/2012 FILE STAMP 10/16/12, PLAINTIFF'S MOTIONS IN LIMINE
10/17/2012 FILE STAMP 10/16/12, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTIONS IN LIMINE
10/15/2012 <******* Bench Notes *********>
PLF APPEARS BY KRAFT, DEF APPEARS BY CONFER. PARTIAL MOTION FOR SJ IS GRANTED AS TO COUNTS 2-3 & 4 -PURSUANT KSA 50-627 THIS IS NOT UNCONSIABLE ACT. I AM ALLOWING KCPA CLAIM TO GO FORWARD BUT UNSURE IF THIS IS REALLY A KCPA CLAIM.(RPTR: HEARN)(JUDGE: MORIARTY)
10/15/2012 FILE STAMP 10/15/12, PRETRIAL ORDER
10/09/2012 FILE STAMP 10/08/12, PLAINTIFF'S FINAL LIST OF WITNESSES AND EXHIBITS
10/09/2012 FILE STAMP 10/08/12, NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF RON OLBERDING
10/09/2012 FILE STAMP 10/08/12, NOTICE OF CONTINUATION OF DEPOSITION OF PHIL LYTLE
10/09/2012 FILE STAMP 10/08/12, SUPPLEMENT TO QUIVRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S FINAL EXHIBIT LIST
10/05/2012 FILE STAMP 10/05/12, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S FINAL WITNESS AND EXHIBIT LIST
10/02/2012 FILE STAMP 10/02/12, REPLY TO PLAINTIFF PHIL LYTLE'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY JUDGMENT
09/14/2012 FILE STAMP 09/14/12, PLAINTIFF PHIL LYTLE'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY JUDGMENT
08/22/2012 FILE STAMP 8/21/2012, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; FOR MAILING
08/13/2012 FILE STAMP 08/10/12, MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY JUDGMENT
08/13/2012 FILE STAMP 08/10/12, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY JUDGMENT
05/25/2012 FILE STAMP 05/24/12, NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
05/16/2012 FILE STAMP 05/16/12, ANSWER TO PLAINTIFF'S FIRST AMENDED PETITION
05/15/2012 FILE STAMP 05/15/12, FIRST AMENDED PETITION
05/15/2012 <******* Bench Notes *********>
PLF APPEARS BY KRAFT, DEF APPEARS BY CONFER. 1) BOTH PARTIES ALLOWED TO AMEND PLEADINGS. 2) SETTLEMENT CONF ORDERED(RPTR: HEARN)(JUDGE: MORIARTY)
05/14/2012 FILE STAMP 05/14/12, AMENDED ANSWER (DEFT BY CONFER)
05/09/2012 FILE STAMP 5/7/2012, ORDER - MOTION TO AMEND ANSWER IS GRANTED
05/03/2012 FILE STAMP 05/03/12, DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO PLAINTIFF'S MOTION TO AMEND PETITION
04/30/2012 FILE STAMP 04/30/12, PLAINTIFF'S PRELIMINARY LIST OF WITNESSES AND EXHIBITS
04/30/2012 FILE STAMP 04/30/12, QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S PRELIMINARY WITNESS AND EXHIBIT LIST
04/24/2012 FILE STAMP 04/24/12, MOTION TO AMEND PETITION AND MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT
04/19/2012 SCHED. MOTION on 05/15/12,09:30am,Div 14
02/23/2012 FILE STAMP 02/23/12, MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION TO AMEND ANSWER
02/23/2012 FILE STAMP 02/23/12, DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION'S MOTION TO AMEND ANSWER
01/09/2012 FILE STAMP 1/6/2012, STIPULATED SCHEDULING ORDER
12/27/2011 FILE STAMP 12/27/11, NOTICE TO TAKE DEPOSITION (PHIL LYTLE)
11/23/2011 FILE STAMP 11/22/2011, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
11/22/2011 <******* Bench Notes *********>
PET KRAFT PHONED TO LET THE COURT KNOW HE WOULD BE LATE. RESP APPEARS BY CONFER/ JT SET 10/22/12, FPT SET 10/15/12 AT 9. SCH ORDER DUE WITHIN 30 DAYS. JT INSTUCTIONS PROVIDED(JUDGE: MORIARTY)
11/22/2011 SCHED. FINAL TRIAL CONFERENCE on 10/15/12,09:00am,Div 14
11/22/2011 SCHED. JURY TRIAL on 10/26/12,09:00am,Div 14
11/22/2011 SCHED. JURY TRIAL on 10/25/12,09:00am,Div 14
11/22/2011 SCHED. JURY TRIAL on 10/24/12,09:00am,Div 14
11/22/2011 SCHED. JURY TRIAL on 10/23/12,09:00am,Div 14
11/22/2011 SCHED. JURY TRIAL on 10/22/12,09:00am,Div 14
10/21/2011 FILE STAMP 10/21/11, NOTICE OF HEARING
10/17/2011 FILE STAMP 10/13/2011, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; FOR MAILING
10/04/2011 SCHED. STATUS CONFERENCE on 11/22/11,08:30am,Div 14
09/26/2011 FILE STAMP 9/22/2011, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; FOR MAILING
09/19/2011 FILE STAMP 09/19/11, NOTICE OF SERVICE OF RESPONSES TO DEFENDANT'S OPENING DISCOVERY REQUESTS
09/01/2011 FILE STAMP 8/26/2011, WITHDRAWAL OF DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION, INC.'S REQUEST FOR STATEMENT OF WRITTEN MONETARY DAMAGES
08/24/2011 FILE STAMP 08/24/11, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE OF PLAINTIFF'S FIRST DISCOVERY REQUESTS TO DEFENDANT QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION, INC.
08/16/2011 FILE STAMP 8/15/2011, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; FOR MAILING
08/15/2011 FILE STAMP 08/13/11, DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO STRIKE PLAINTIFF'S REQUEST FOR WRITTEN STATEMENT OF MONETARY DAMAGES
08/04/2011 FILE STAMP 8/2/2011, REQUEST FOR STATEMENT OF MONETARY DAMAGES
07/29/2011 FILE STAMP 7/22/2011, DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
07/29/2011 FILE STAMP 7/22/2011, ANSWER
07/29/2011 Defense Attorney KRSTULIC, CAROL ANN assigned on 07/29/11
07/29/2011 Defense Attorney CONFER, ALLISON G assigned on 07/29/11
07/29/2011 FILE STAMP 7/22/2011, ENTRY OF APPEARANCE
07/29/2011 FILE STAMP 7/22/2011, ENTRY OF APPEARANCE
07/29/2011 Defense Attorney SANDERS, JAMES L assigned on 07/29/11
07/29/2011 FILE STAMP 7/22/2011, ENTRY OF APPEARANCE
07/05/2011 FILE STAMP 07/05/2011, SHERIFF RETURN JO CO KS, SUMMONS, PETITION AND EXHIBITS SERVED QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION INC 07/01/2011 E/S
06/29/2011 PETITION AND SUMMONS ISSUED TO THE SHERIFF OF JO CO KS "QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION INC"
06/29/2011 FILE STAMP 06/28/11 05:30pm, REQUEST AND SERVICE INSTRUCTION FORM
06/29/2011 FILE STAMP 06/28/11, PETITION (WITH EXHIBITS ATTACHED)
06/29/2011 JUDGE KEVIN MORIARTY ASSIGNED TO CASE
06/29/2011 NEW CASE E-FILED; LYTLE VS QUIVIRA FALLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION INC; FILING FEE $173.50; SERVICE FEE $5.00; PAID BY KRAFT, ERIC G, RECEIPTED AMOUNT $178.50, E-PAYMENT NO: 43046647

Hi Tim,

I just made some calls. The actual documents can be copied and mailed to you. Charges are .50 per page and if you need it certified add $1.00.

Mail your request for case number 11CV05582 along with a check to:

Johnson County District Courthouse
Attn: Records
100 N. Kansas Avenue
Olathe, KS 66061

You will need to call first and ask the number of pages on the entry you are seeking...913-715-3480. With budget cuts these folks are overworked so expect their patience levels might be a little short. (Just a warning) They are not their usual Midwestern happy selves.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide you with additional information.

Have a good day!

NDR

Nila

In another post you say your dues are $1.2M per year and that $10M is unaccounted for. Assume every penny was stolen for the last 9 years, it would be about $10M. This also means that no, nothing, nada was paid for those 9 years as it was all stolen.

Sorry but $10M does not compute.

Feel free to explain more.

Hi Tim,

It would be nice if the everyday citizen could access them, but JoCo has it set up to where attorneys can but we (unless you are an attorney with a Kansas license) can't.

She said the ruling was 11 pages. $5 or $6 but possibly not worth that unless an attorney is going to use it for another case which is what is expected to happen across the country.

Hopefully, you will never encounter a deceptive practices lawsuit either as the plaintiff or defendant.

Take care.

NDR

I think your new president did the right thing. Filing bankruptsy for your HOA would have been way more damaging to every member. It means bankruptsy against ALL the members. Your ability to resale/refinance homes would have been nearly impossible. Banks would not be offering good rates and new buyers would have to jump through more hoops most could not pass through.

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. So whatever debt it has ALL the members have to pay it. I would say that million dollar loan was the better evil of what your all faced. Loans aren't pretty for a HOA but necessary. I'd sooner take a loan to get out of a hole than take bankruptsy that doesn't heal. In order to get a loan from a bank, especially that large, shows your HOA still has some credit.

No HOA is run by professionals or anyone with that kind of background. A cubscout leader could be president along with a Real Estate broker. Most professional people would even avoid volunteering for a HOA. They know the risks, headaches, and the stress that would add onto their lives. To expect experts to run your HOA, is a bit short sighted. Reality is all you have to be is an owner. Nothing else.

Melissa,

Here we are again with a difference of opinion.

I could argue against the loan for a couple of hours but it wouldn't solve anything. The loan is a ball and chain on every property in our community now. With the number of rentals, loans, condition of the property, foreclosures and lawsuits...the loan very well could have been just another nail in the coffin. Lenders don't like any of the above and we are getting close to the 70/30 mark. Once we hit 30% rentals the mortgage companies in our area of the country shy away and keep their money for better opportunities. When they research the lawsuits and learn 10 million dollars is unaccounted for, records aren't available, board members are self-dealing, their are numerous cases pending for breach of contract, a nationally precedenting case for deceptive practices in violation of a consumer protection law has been decided by the judge has ruled in favor of the homeowner, and the foreclosures are growing by the day...ahhh well, the loan really didn't help stop the Titanic from sinking. And bankruptcy would have saved the community from incurring any more debt and the payments on the loan, including the interest could have been used to repair the rotting houses. I actually spent considerable time with a 50 year experienced CPA and CFP who told me the best of the worst case scenarios would have been to file the bankruptcy. Of course, he had more facts than you do and he weighed the out very carefully and since he's been my CPA for over 25 years and never steered me wrong...I trust his judgment. However, our board has exercised their right to never listen to anyone with any business experience and takes whatever the property manager says to be the gospel truth....so they went the route of the loan. Knowing what I know about HOAs and property managers, I am skeptical and of the opinion there very well could have been a nice "kick back" from the lender to the property manager for making this million dollar loan go down. No way to prove that but still I can be skeptical and honor my opinion.

Sadly, in 2008 after "Mr Wonderful" left the planet I was able to put together a team of professionals that were willing to donate 3 years of their lives to be on the board and try to save this sinking ship. They spent considerable time putting together a strategy, resourcing their experts, and wanted to be able to reward these suffering homeowners with a nice rebuilt and improved community all at no cost and as volunteers. The board decided it would send minions out door knocking and telling flat out lies to the homeowners with all kinds of scare tactics to keep homeowners from voting for these generous intelligent "good as gold" honest successful business executives and so they failed to be elected to the board. Since then it has been all downhill and there is no other way to say it..."Put a fork in it, this community is done."

Have a nice evening.

NDR

Melissa,

I've read enough of your posts and responses to your posts to know 1) You are a right-fighter 2) You don't know as much about HOAs as you think you know 3) You refuse to listen anybody else's opinion or logic.

I did not come here to spread "poison" as you stated. I came here to share my experience with my HOA in hopes that others will learn from my experiences and prevent their HOAs from going down the same path. And to learn from posters here on what has gone right and what has gone wrong in there HOA. I'm not on here with rose-colored glasses. I'm a realist and that seems to be a real problem for you.

You may not say anything about a dead person BUT please understand I'm a US citizen with Freedom of Speech Rights and I can say whatever I wish to say and you can, too. Who assigned you the right to instruct another person on what they can and cannot say? Our dead president doesn't need to be alive to defend himself because the court records hold all the information stated by board members and homeowners under oath before a judge in a court of law. Before he died, he was also in court, under oath and made statements that incriminated himself.

I beg to differ with you on this one...I have read many of the comments on this board and the majority of the posters are not talking about the love in their HOAs. And their HOAs are not "fully functional GOOD HOA's." And some posters are in complete disagreement with you.

The daily news has one article after another about HOA embezzlement. Why would anyone be offended by the knowledge of knowing what is being uncovered across the country in other HOAs. Isn't that how people learn from the mistakes others have made? Perhaps if you just do one internet search of HOA Nightmares or Neighbors At War you will find enough stories on your own to realize these situations are not isolated cases. I'm curious do you get offended if you local police department puts airs a story about break-ins by people leaving their garage doors up and warns people to check before going to be at night that theirs is closed? Does that make you feel like the police are trying to scare your neighbors into shutting their doors and protecting themselves?

You asked about a special assessment. Homeowners voted against the assessment because the HOA cannot show what they have done with the money they do have. They don't want to hand over more money and chance more excuses of why they are seeing nothing for their money. That's like asking Bernie Madoff's investors to pitch in more money as he's walking into the courtroom in handcuffs, in my opinion.

While I don't agree with the majority of your opinions I recognize you have a right to it. I have a right to mine as well and therefore I will not let you stomp me into the turf because you have been on a board of an HOA. I also will not allow you to try and repeatedly insult my intelligence. I have not agreed with you an several subjects but I have not intentionally tried to insult you.

I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind answering them, please? I read a post where you said your HOA voted you OUT as president. Why was that? You said it was okay because you had sold and were moving anyway, correct? Why were you moving if you had been the president running the HOA and all was going so beautifully?

I truly am a person that will change directions if another person supports their ideas with logical information and it's well-documented. I don't buy into people who say...it's this way because I say it's this way. Tim asked me to provide the information about the lawsuit. I responded to his request and made an extra effort to assist his request. You didn't like that apparently, but you were under no obligation to read it.

When right-fighters become street fighters I become skeptical of them.

NDR

Melissa,

You are 100% correct, I made the mistake of buying into an HOA without reading the CC&R's first. Before buying into this HOA I was a very trusting person. I had a blind faith and trust that nothing could go wrong in this perfect little community. Eight years later, I have learned the horrors of my blind faith and trust. My bank account now has a $200,000.00 loss, my health has suffered because I have HOA Syndrome, and I've spent the past 5.5 almost 6 years talking with people all across the United States about their HOAs. I've read every book I can get my hands on about HOAs. I've sat through countless court sessions on various HOA cases. I've worked with legislators to pass a bill into law to govern HOAs. I've talked to professors, lawyers, and professionals about HOAs. I've learned the best of HOAs are only one vote away from the nightmare I am living. One board member going rogue is all it takes. And I've learned that putting lipstick on a pig does not turn it into Cinderella Village.

Because of my mistake I am committed to sharing the errors of my ways in hopes that I will spare another trusting person the devastation I have endured. On numerous occasions I have been told I was a Godsend to someone who did more research and backed out of a purchase into an HOA. On other occasions I've had board members tell my entire neighborhood I am a liar. I have openly offered to take a polygraph any time, any where, any place at the HOA's expense. They have refused to do it. Anyone who questions my statements has been offered supporting documents or has talked to first-hand witnesses to a situation. I do not fabricate stories, do not tell lies, and do not make false accusations. However, I have been falsely accused numerous times. I have offered for the HOA to locate fingerprints in situations where I have been falsely accused and I will gladly sign for them to run the prints in their efforts to prove me guilty because I know I am not guilty. My fingerprints are on file with the FBI because of security clearances I have had with previous jobs in the aviation industry. If my prints were on anything they would show up in seconds. But you see, I have never done anything illegal, (well yes, I have had parking and speeding tickets) never stolen anything, never vandalized anything and I have absolutely nothing to hide.

Sadly there are no perfect HOAs anymore because we are now a society of people who have lost respect and trust in each other. We don't sit and talk out our disagreements, we type across this vast internet and verbally abuse, accuse, and disrespect the values and opinions of others. We get on the highway and road rage anybody that cuts us off. We don't have time to visit the sick and elderly because well, reality television is on. Our children are taught to bully other kids, and disrespect authority. We now have people around the world that we identify as terrorists who want to help us destroy our society by flying airliners into our iconic buildings and killing innocent people or setting off bombs on the streets of Boston in senseless acts of violence. We no longer live in the days when "I Love Lucy" was part of our daily routine thus, the HOA concept that was introduced into our society back in the "I Love Lucy" days isn't working too well in all cases either. In many HOAs on a daily basis people are having their lives completely destroyed. The bubble has been broken. We can still dream and hope but without acknowledging reality we are setting ourselves up to be taken advantage of. Remember when I said I bought in this HOA with a blind faith and trust that all would go well? I've learned....and I've learned the hard way, I made a horrible mistake but I can assure you, it will NEVER be a mistake I will repeat again. For those that learn from my mistake I am thankful. For those who don't, I wish them well.

There is an old saying, perhaps you have heard it? "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink."

Namaste,
NDR

Good Morning Tim,

You have a right to disagree and I respect that. In a perfect HOA world what you are saying is correct. In the real HOA world, it is not.

How about we start here at home on this very site? It's the one where the poster wanted to get a second dog. A board member went rogue through the "back door" of the MC and got the expressed opinion of an attorney about dangerous dogs, etc. Apparently some bogus report came back and the posters dog is now on that "dangerous dog" list. The legal bill is $1,000. that the HOA has been billed for at this point. Other board members were not aware this was done. At this point, fortunately this rogue board member did not instruct the attorney he consulted with to file a lawsuit in civil court over this dog issue, but if he/she had of and the homeowner filed a countersuit, the community would be off to the races at the county courthouse. All of this could have happened without the knowledge of the other board members and the community at large. Attribute such a nightmare to a "rogue" board member, correct?

From all the HOAs I have become acquainted with (too numerous to give you an exact number) the members are not ever aware of the lawsuits filed against their neighbors because lawsuits are discussed in executive meetings of which they are not allowed to attend, even if they wanted to.

I have volumes of HOA related resources but here's the three most important and helpful ones, in my opinion, that I have. Two books written by a lawyer with a political science degree and works as a professor in Chicago, called upon as an expert witness in HOA litigation and speaks from time to time on a radio talk show about HOAs. He is also quoted in numerous newspaper articles where a professional in the field of HOAs is consulted. He spent years researching and writing about HOAs and all his sources are well-documented. His first book was printed by Yale University Press. Those folks don't print nonsense that was fabricated by some crack pot with an axe to grind about an HOA.

The second is a 48 page report written after extensive research about the four stages of community associations. The author is an attorney in California. The article is quite fascinating to read and by reading it I learned my HOA is in the latter stages of Stage 4.

The third is a recently released book by a retired Denver, Colorado television investigative reporter who holds a degree in political science. During his 40 year career he won more than 70 journalism and civic awards, Emmy Awards, the prestigious George Polk Award and the CSICOP Responsibility in Journalism Award and is part of a national speakers network and can be heard on radio talk shows from time to time. He spent 25 years researching HOAs, owns in one that he had a massive legal battle with and has a well-documented book that is so fascinating to read most readers say they could not put it down, me included.

These are just the tip of the iceberg where I've acquired the knowledge I have about HOAs. Some may argue these folks are full of garage and know nothing about the past, present and future of HOAs in America. I tend to be one who listens to people with these credentials because remember I made a blind faith purchase into an HOA that has pretty well destroyed my life. I cannot argue with these men because what they have written and supported with documented proof makes total sense to me and I can see how what they are saying applies precisely to the nightmare I am living. Because of that I call their publications factual. Again, others may argue facts are not facts they are someone else's perceived idea of the truth. I am sure there are people on this very site that think they know far more about HOAs than these highly educated authors. If so, I will gladly read any books or reports they have written that are also documented with factual information. I am willing to learn as much as my brain can hold and approach the learning process with an open mind.

I should tell you, I have dealt with people face-to-face who have argued with me about HOAs. Once they read just one of the three publications I mention above they saw HOAs in the same light that I do. People who have read the third item on my list have called me and said...THIS IS A MUST READ FOR EVERY BOARD MEMBER, HOMEOWNER, REAL ESTATE SALES REP, POTENTIAL BUYER, AND LEGISLATOR in America! I could not agree more.

I strongly believe education is important for numerous reasons. You may disagree with me and that is your right. Because of my knowledge of what happens with rogue board members, I am going to stick with what I said, one vote is all it takes to put a rogue board member on an HOA board and the rest is history.

You addressed the one rogue board member in my HOA. He was rogue for 26 years before I moved in here and started asking questions and was able to get other people to speak out as well. Some of them were silenced quickly when he threatened to sue them if they said another word. The average person hears...YOU WILL BE SUED and they is all it takes for them to walk away. I say, I will be? For what will I be sued for? Is telling the truth grounds for litigation? But you see, I am different because I have extensive experience in the business world and the large majority of my neighbors do not. That is precisely how the rogue board member kept those who questioned him at bay for 26 years. Or, I've learned he made some "special" deals and that silenced the "troublemakers."

Never forget, all things are possible; when there is a will there is a way. Even Bernie Madoff pulled off a Ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC, but there were people who questioned him from day one that were silenced and ignored. I would be willing to bet a "skilled" rogue board member could fool you, too.

I hope you have a delightful day!

NDR