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WillM (California)
Posts: 2
Posted:
pardon in advance for the VERY detailed story....

I'm on a 5-person board of a 300-unit condo building. One board member (we'll call him "A") hates dogs and is a control freak. Currently, our pet policy states only one dog is allowed (although 2 cats, or a dog and a cat, are allowed). Ours is the only condo in the city with this restrictive policy, and we sought to change that 18 months ago, but with two board members absent, "A' and his friend on the board (no longer on the board) voted against me to 2-1 to table it. More than a year later, we've brought it up for a vote again and four members are voting yes to change the policy to allow two dogs and meet the standard at every other condo.

However, before the current likelihood of the board voting to make this a condo-wide policy, I wrote to the board for permission to get a second dog (as allowed to do per the CC&Rs). We have a pug. An executive session was conducted (I could not vote and waited outside). While "A" did all he could to muddy the issues and keep us from getting approval, the board members voted 3-1 to grant our personal request (in part, because we knew that in the next board meeting we'd be voting 4-1 to make it a building-wide policy).

After the executive session and we were told our request was granted, "A" secretly instructed the building manager to ask the building's law firm (at $300 an hour) if pugs are a fighting breed and if he could get our current pug removed. Shockingly, the building manager did it ("A" intimidates her as he's been a board member the longest). She also sent the attorney two "A" -supplied website links which "A' thinks shows pugs are part of the "mastiff family" and since mastiff are listed as a fighting breed in the pet policy, he could get our pug removed, as well as stop us from getting another one.

The (worthless) attorney said our pug could not be removed; however, he was lazy and wishy washy on the rest. Bizarrely,the attoney's letter declared pugs a fighting breed based on these two worthless website links (didn't bother to do more research or even ask a pug group or a vet!) yet said the board could not prove relation to a mastiff without a DNA test. FYI Pugs are an ancient dog breed originating in China 2000+ years ago. There is no mastiff "family" of dogs and while pugs and Tibetan mastiffs might be related, it was 2000 years ago!!! Pugs are generally regarded as one of the top 10 condo- and child-friendly dogs around. Our pug is perfect (never barks, no violations, etc....NO reason for the vindictive action).

I was shocked that (1.) $1000+ of HOA funds were spent for this vindictive request (2) Our dog was targeted simply as retribution for "A" losing the battle (so he'd win the "war") (3) the building manager was willing to accept the ridiculous findings of the attorney and declare pugs a fighting breed (and thus, put any pug at risk of being banned, removed at a later date.). The actions of "A" and the bldg. manager seems nasty, unethical and I wonder if it was even illegal? Imagine if every resident who had a complaint, or "won" an decision was then vindictively harassed or target for retribution. I complained to the management company who expressed remorse for the situation and said they'd talk to the bldg. manager. later, They said the bldg manager felt "in the middle." However, I don't believe anything was really done (another board member, who is shocked at what has transpired, thinks they are afraid of a lawsuit).

I want "A" to be censored or kicked off the board. And for "A" have to pay for initial engagement of the attorney for his "revenge." Moreover, I now want the HOA to pay to re-engage the attorney in order to accurately research pugs, etc. and thus, remove the fighting breed label. I've lost all trust in the bldg. manager.

What course do I have, both as a resident and a board member? Should this all be discussed at an executive session (our next meeting is mid-June) with the 5 board members, bldg. manager and her bosses? or do I simply tell the board AND owners present during the actual meeting about this nasty, unethical situation? During that meeting, there will be a vote on the two dog policy and "A' will surely raise a ruckus (he is already campaigning to stop it via the building's yahoo groups page..recruiting other anti-dog people to attend the next board meeting) even though the other board members are likely to vote 4-1 to make the alteration of the pet policy and allow two dogs.

Obviously, I feel personally attacked (and our dog attacked) and want to keep this board member from doing this to other residents (he's already rubbed many residents the wrong way with previous comments and decisions and is considered a "bully"). I also want the management firm to be held accountable, both for being a part of it, spending HOA funds and frankly, not questioning the lazy work of the law firm.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Will
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Will,

Honestly, I'd request to discuss the matter in an OPEN meeting at your next regular board meeting. Because the "executive session" is meant to protect you and not the actions of the board director, waive your right to an executive session and air this thing out professionally - including this silly notion that pugs are fighting breed (which normally covers pit bulls, rotts, etc.). Inquire about everything you've posted, including your "disappointment" that the HOA board spent YOUR money to ask a lawyer about a pug when the board approved your request.

It will take some guts, but this guy's passive-aggressiveness must be addressed in an open forum, which makes things more difficult to pull off if you hide behind locked doors and whispers. This comes from an HOA president, me.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I am not familiar with CA law but I think it is personally reasonable to have the indvidual board member pay for his communication with the attorney. Since it was not a board approved inquiry he (or he and the building manager) should be responsible for the cost and since the designation of pugs as a fighting breed came from an unauthorized correspondence I would think the attorney's opinion will have no effect on the neighborhood. It is just an opinion for a client other then the board. If "A" wants to pursue this he needs to get another attorney and take his complaints to court on his own dime.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
("A" intimidates her as he's been a board member the longest).

Obviously, I feel personally attacked (and our dog attacked) and want to keep this board member from doing this to other residents (he's already rubbed many residents the wrong way with previous comments and decisions and is considered a "bully").


And yet he evidently keeps getting elected to the Board. Curious and curiouser.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CeceliaV (North Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I would have this aired in an open meeting. Beside the absurdity of having a pug called a fighting breed I would be most concerned about this individual having engaged the HOA lawyer on his own. In NC our board votes to refer any issues to our lawyer, especially when a fee is involved. I would consider this a misuse of HOA funds. Maybe your board should vote to remove this pugnacious individual from the board.

Would think the AKC and pug organizations would have information to dispute the lawyer's flawed information.
MoM1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 56
Posted:
I would round up the pro-pet owners and make sure they attend the next meeting. Put the vote to change the pet policy on the agenda and proceed with the vote. Now the pet owners will be able to see who voted against this policy and can act accordingly at the the next election. Do your owners get monthly financial statements where someone might ask what the legal bills are for and "A" or the treasurer will have to explain?
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
IF the version of facts is accurate in this matter there would seem to be several issues that would need to be addressed.

The OP thinks that it was a misuse of HOA funds to research the pug breed. The fact one Board member was able to use HOA attorney services without geting approval from the Board is troubling. On our Board only one Board member is authorized to contact he attorney on HOA time. The Board President. Why did the attorney not make the rest of the Board aware? Why did the MC not inform the entire Board? Problems as I see it.

But now the OP would like the HOA to use HOA funds to clear his dog's reputation. So that is now a valid use of HOA funds. Lets add to the $1,000 and dump so more money into this nonsense. Makes no sense to me.

When one Board member uses funds to fight a personal battle that's wrong when I can use them to support my agenda that's right. And the HOA members should pay for both.

Sounds to me like this is a personal comflict where one side thinks getting their way will not have consequences. And both sides see the need to escalate the battle to ensure their win. Just when will that stop? And how does this all serve the HOA members?

One observation I would make is that I would not predict or base my oinions on what I think might happen at the next meetring in reagrds to elections. Sounds like A has all intentions of fighting this change to the pet policy and I would be reluctant to count votes beforehand.

Not sure of the documents or state law in this case but remving this member if they were elected to that position might not be possible. And while this might serve ones agenda you would need to determine the legality of such an action.

WillM (California)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thank you. Much helpful information here. And some sensible validation to avenues I'm pursuing.

Alas, getting condo owners to vote in significant enough numbers for board members is next to impossible so "A" continues on the board regardless of how many owners have expressed their disdain for him.

There is now a record on file saying pugs are a fighting breed. That is ridiculous. It puts all pug owners at risk for harassment if new personnel or management team comes on board in the future. Personally, I think the attorney's work was so beyond worthless that the HOA should get a freebie to address it and get it corrected. The building manager has been criticized for going to the attorney too quickly and thus piling up huge bills. Simple online information could get her the information on pugs, fighting breeds, etc. I was originally cautious when others wanted to change building management teams a few years ago. Now, I'm all for it. Grrr.
CeceliaV (North Carolina)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I was curious about pugs being a fighting dog since I had never ever heard that about the breed, I checked the internet and found the AKC description of the breed --on the AKC website and there are lots of serious pug organizations.

Couldn't you print their information which is in direct conflict with the existing information from the lawyer and management company and ask that it be added to the file?

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'm afraid i didn't read your original post carefully, but a very serious problem seems to be that a director on his or her own can rack up attorney's fees without board approval. Do your bylaws or other documents say ANY director can consult with your HOA attorney?

Your PM should not oppose whatever is in your governing documents. What does the Mgmt. Co. (MC) contract with your HOA say?

You probably, as Jon notes, remove the director without a h'owner vote unless he was appointed by the Board. Read your documents. If A is an officer, the Board probably can remove him from that office. Read your docs, probably your bylaws to find out.

Why did the Board hold an executive session to discuss whether you could have the additional dog? In our state, CA, that is not a matter that may be discussed in ES.

I can see that owning another pug is very important to you, but as a member of the Board of Directors, Will, you need to encourage the Board to adhere to your governing documents and mgmt. contract. Your first duty is to your HOA.

Finally, are you saying that "A" continues to serve because no one opposes him when you elect new directors? Or that not enough HOA members vote to establish a quorum?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
if your CCRs allow TWO dogs ~ get your second dog

let the BOD proceed from there

they can NOT over-ride the CCRs w/o a membership vote to ammend and re-register same
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Did I miss something in the restriction of conditions/type of dog/cat? It says you can own a dog, it does NOT say the type. It is up to your INSURANCE company to decide if your breed of dog you own is in the "vicious" dog breed category. Then the insurance provider will just charge you more money for having a dog considered a vicious breed.

At what point did you or your board contact your local Animal Control? Seems to me someone should have discussed these regulations and conditions to fall inline with existing animal code and laws in your area. Declaring your dog a vicious dog and forcing you to get rid of it has to have laws on the books with the city/county/state you live in. Seems just going by "Condo" law is a bit too limiting. Condo laws can be more restrictive but they can't violate. Plus animal control or your local police department would most likely have to handle any kind of eviction process anyways. Your condo can lien or foreclose but only for non-payment of dues in most states. So fines can not be the basis of a lien or foreclosure, the only real thing they probably could do. Did not see any mention of the punishment of violating the dog policy in any condition leads to enforcement of getting rid or fining. Did not see a definition of the punishment just the rule.

So check with your local animal control. See what they have to say. By the way the 3 top vicious dogs are Chihuaha, Datsun, and Rat Terriers. Small dogs are more likely to bite than bigger dogs. However, most don't fall into the vicious dog breed recommendations. Those are for Dobermans, pit bulls, german shepards, and rottweillers.

Former HOA President
NilaR (Kansas)
Posts: 49
Posted:
Will,

What you have here is a board member that is going rogue on you! These folks have been nicknamed, The Neighborhood Nazis. In cases all across the United States rogue board members are destroying communities with massive legal bills and homeowners are getting hit with assessments to pay the debt when they didn't even know there was any legal actions being filed.

My suggestions:

1) Read your CC&R's. Does it designate which officer on the board can request legal advice? If yes, is this guy that officer? If no, does it say that any board member can make that request?

If the guy stepped out of bounds and tried to win his personal battle with you using HOA funds the board needs to address that in an open meeting. And they need to advise the MC that he is paying the bill for contacting legal counsel when they did so on behalf of an unauthorized board member.

2) Unfortunately, I've heard of similar stories where the animals have been poisoned. I would keep a really close eye on anything my dog drank or ate while outside of my house.

3) I would NOT get another dog without WRITTEN PERMISSION signed and notarized by the board president, if the board approves it. Keep that letter in a safe file! A new property manager could step in a few years from now and a legal battle could begin over your dog.

4) Strongly suggest your by-laws be amended to say, Any lawsuits filed against a homeowner must be approved by a majority of the property owners. This will keep rogue board members that hold the power position from filing lawsuits against their enemies just because they can.

5) Document every little detail about this situation from DAY ONE. Keep a daily journal of the situation. Make sure you put down dates, times and names of people involved. Write down quotes of anything they said. Should you ever have to go to court, your attorney, the jury and the judge will appreciate your detailed documentation.

This guy is building his army of those who oppose you while you are building your army of supporters and it won't be long before the neighborhood becomes a battleground and the neighbors are at war. Thousands upon thousands of cases like this are going on all across the country right now. Tort attorneys are looking for work and it seems plenty of HOAs have tons of money to spend on lawsuits.

Wishing the best to you and your pooch!

NDR

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