Interesting HOA Stats, USA

Started by CarolR11 • 20 replies • 1477 views

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CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Very interesting info. To see more, visit davis-stirling.com, click on Newsletters; this one is from 5/5/13. Hope you're able to access it.

323,600 Total USA HOAs

STATISTICAL REVIEW

The Foundation for Community Association Research retained Zogby International to conduct a nationwide survey of community associations. The 2012 poll found that California was number two behind Florida as the state with the greatest number of associations. Zogby found that:

1. 70% of those polled rate their community association experience as positive and 22% were neutral. [That means that only 8% were negative--unfortunately, the ones who legislators seem to listen to and who generate the most litigation.]

2. 88% stated that their board strives to serve the best interests of their community.

3. 81% say they get a "good" or "great" return on their assessments.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
CA has 46,000 HOA's and FL has 42,500. TX is a distant 3rd with 18,400

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

I would think an argument can be made that the negative responders (and the ones the legislature listen to) could be the reason for the higher approval ratings. Their complaints and criticisms may have led to some of the oversight that has helped prevent greater amounts of displeased residents. I for one am increasingly satisfied with the idea of communal living when I see some regulation.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

DITTO

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500

Posted:

The direct link to the report is:
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/11361369/1979297824/name/CAI%20Foundation%202012%20Statistical%20Brief.pdf

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

It's easy to take any statistic and make a claim either one way or another.

Most HOA/Condo members have no clue where their money is going or the health of their HOA/Condo. Especially condo owners. Many people buy a condo because they don't want to deal with anything.

Most people don't bother answering polls, so you have to wonder how this polling was done.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Thanks for supplying the direct link, Matthew.

Steve, I don't think the report makes many claims--it basically shows descriptive data. The sentence in brackets about the 8% negative was inserted by an attorney at the firm that puts together davis.stirling.com; it's not an analysis from Zogby, a very well-respected polling outfit. (Brackets [ . . . ] within quotes mean the phrase was not in the original--sorry if I misled anyone).

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

While the research may have been don't by Zogby, the report was done by an organization which sells products to associations thus promoting association life.

Digested reports never have any data that may discredit their conclusions. I know, I've done enough reports like this in my lifetime of business meetings and looked skeptically at reports written by others. You can make anything look good using real data, but purposely excluding other data.

I don't trust any report that doesn't have references to raw data.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

For example....

The 2007 study by Zogby was based upon responses from .....wait for it.......... 709 people.

http://pvtgov.org/pvtgov/downloads/survey-2007.pdf

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500

Posted:

Steve,

I agree with you.

I not only distrust reports that do not have the raw data but I also want to see the questions and any canned responses, and the instructions present to the respondents.

When an interviewer asks a question and presents three choices, he has already decided that he will not allow the interviewee to express any other views except those he has provided.

Example:
How much do you love me?
a) I worship you.
b) Your are my lord and master.
c) I want to be the mother of your children.

Not much room there for, "I hate your guts."

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500

Posted:

You can also get entirely different answers by the way you ask the question.

Remember the old commercial that said 3 out of 4 doctors recommend Bayer aspirin? Which question do you suppose they asked to get those results?
a) Which aspirin do you recommend?
or
b) Do you recommend Bayer aspirin?
or maybe even
c) You do recommend Bayer aspirin, don't you?

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

2005 Survey - 800 people

http://www.communityassociations.net/articles/homeownership_association_living[1].pdf

......remember..... there are an estimated 62 million americans living in some type of association.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

New Link (pasting problem)

2005 Survey - 800 people
http://tinyurl.com/2005survey

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

It appears the randomly selected people were chosen from the membership list of CAI. 31,000k members strong worldwide.

Remember there are an estimated 315,000 associations in the usa.

It's safe to say 284,000 associations are dysfunctional and have no desire to do better or learn more from a trade group such as CAI. And we can say there are even more dysfunctional associations that forgot to even file their annual report so no one knows about them.

So what you're looking at is a survey of the best and highly organized associations in america.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I can't tell how Zogby selected its sample; how do we know it's CAI members, Steve?

The sample size is very typical when the population universe is the number who live in HOAs. Recall that a certain % are children, who wouldn't participate. national surveys of US adults--for pres. elections, say, can use as few as 2,000 registered voters (or those who say they intend to vote). Even the stat guru par excellence, Nate Silver, who accurately predicted the presidential race outcome in 2012 did not use a huge sample every week.

There only seem to be a very few survey questions. For this type of survey, a Likert Scale generally is used with five possible answers--not three. I can think of no reason why CAI would want to ask Zogby to build bias into their survey questions, nor why Zogby would comply. I imagine that many US adults now recognize biased survey questionnaires when they see them given all of the publicity about them.

I assume that CAI or Zogby would be happy to supply the raw data, source(s) of their sample, and actual questions on their survey. Do you write your local newspaper every time it cites a poll and ask for the raw data? Sample size? Wording of the questions?

For me, anyway, I just enjoyed knowing more about the numbers of folks, in HOAs, the number of property mgrs., etc., etc. nd thought others would too.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MatthewW4 on 05/06/2013 9:26 AM
You can also get entirely different answers by the way you ask the question.

Remember the old commercial that said 3 out of 4 doctors recommend Bayer aspirin? Which question do you suppose they asked to get those results?
a) Which aspirin do you recommend?
or
b) Do you recommend Bayer aspirin?
or maybe even
c) You do recommend Bayer aspirin, don't you?

As was told to me many years ago. Figures don't lie but liers figure.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

The 70% positive, 22% ambivalent, 8% negative seems to me to be about right based on having lived in 5 associations in IL(2), MA(1), and SC(2). Including multi-unit buildings(1), townhouses(2), and stand alone homes(2).

I would take those numbers with women I known and be proud.........LOL

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/06/2013 1:15 PM
The 70% positive, 22% ambivalent, 8% negative seems to me to be about right based on having lived in 5 associations in IL(2), MA(1), and SC(2). Including multi-unit buildings(1), townhouses(2), and stand alone homes(2).

I would take those numbers with women I known and be proud.........LOL

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Do you write your local newspaper every time it cites a poll and ask for the raw data? Sample size? Wording of the questions?

Nope. I just assume its total crap. LOL.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

In the last national election one party decided they too would not believe the poll numbers because they simply could not be right. In the end they were right.

The number of people surveyed is not and does not have to be 100% pf those in the group being surveyed. Just simple math with a group of less than 1000 asked for their opinions and they reflect the total pool. Happens all the time in polling no need to have responses from 300 million people to determine who might be our next President.

Seems when faced with the "possibility" that a large majority of HOA residents see this as positive some folks can't wrap their brains around this fact.

Must be they are all CAI members, must be the unhappy people didn't bother to respond, must be Zogby rigged the results, must have been the way the questions were worded, if only I was allowed to review the raw data, just has to be something to explain how these faulty numbers were arrived at when they simply can't be true.

Yes, every property has few malcontents. Every property has a few people who have no understanding of how an HOA operates but rather want the HOA to operate as they deem correct. Yes each property has a few but they are in fact a small percentage of the total owners. Not sure if they represent 8% more or less but the simple truth the vast majority of people living in HOAs do in fact see them as a positive place to live. Whether some believe that or not matters very little.

Where is the poll that says differently????

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

In the last national election one party decided they too would not believe the poll numbers because they simply could not be right. In the end they were right.

The national election is not a good example. You have a 50% chance of being right. No one remembers the people who were wrong.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Appreciate your point about sample size, Jon, and your other remarks to.

If anyone would like to review the wording of the researchers' questions go to:

http://www.caionline.org/info/research/Documents/national_homeowner_research.pdf

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