Declarant to HOA Transition

Started by JohnC46 • 34 replies • 4262 views

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JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Our Declarant has announced (was expected) that he will be transitioning HOA control to the HOA commencing 01/2014. I am on a Declarant appointed advisory committee and we are meeting with the Declarant tomorrow evening to begin discussions.

Our Annual Meeting is this coming Wednesday. I do not expect a real large turnout as most of our owners (100 of final 113) are basically happy so they are apathetic. Ho w to interest them is another subject.

I am going to suggest we set up monthly (or more if needed) meetings of the advisory BOD to review our Covenants/Bylaws to discuss changes that would make it easier for us to run the HOA. The Declarant can make changes at his will and he would be willing to do so. As long as we are an advisory BOD is there any reason we would have to announce our meetings to fellow owners? I do want owner input and we will seek it but also I do not want meeting notice restraints in our way as we review all the docs.

I say we can get together and work when and how we want as we are not an elected BOD.

What say you?

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

JohnC,
Excellent idea. I suggest inviting all owners to volunteer to join this transition committee. You probably will get very limited volunteers but this may prevent political and potential legal problems during and after the transition. Attached is a check list of items related to the transition which may be of use.

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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/28/2013 10:06 AM

I do not want meeting notice restraints in our way as we review all the docs.
I say we can get together and work when and how we want as we are not an elected BOD.

However, you are an appointed committee of the Board.
Therefore, if your governing documents or State statutes have notice requirements for committees, you need to comply with them.

If they are scheduled regularly, you only need to send one notice saying that the committee will meet on the third Tuesday of each month or simply list the expected dates. If the Association has a website, the dates can be listed there, which would likely meet any notice requirements.

I agree with Roger, invite others who are interested to join.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This is why I explain that running a HOA is like putting your checkbook on the dining room table for the whole family and sometimes company to see it. They also have a say on how it is spent as well. It is a hard thing to accept and give up control of. So I can see why the hesitationn on allowing anyone and everyone to come to the meeting. Everyone has that crazy uncle they do not want involved.

So schedule your meetings to be open and regular. People will attend if they are interested. If not then they will complain after the transition. Just let them know there were open meetings prior to it and they were welcomed. It will play in your favor later.

Former HOA President

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

How many are on this committee?

I'm in total agreement with Roger, Tim & Melissa.

John46, you wrote that members are "apathetic" because they're happy and that getting them interested is another matter.

I think the best time to start involving others is with your Advisory Committee meetings.

Warmly invite one & all. There may be some fine ideas floating around out there that your AC is not aware of. You may be able to entice others to volunteer for, say, ARC or other committees. Promote the fact that the HOA now truly belongs to each and every owner, etc. This seems to me to be a wonderful opportunity to encourage owners to be active citizens & participants in your community.

I can see that you might feel that one or two cranks might slow you down or get you off track, but I believe it's worth that small inconvenience. If you have a clearcut accessible agenda for each meeting and stick to it, all should go well. John.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

We are preparing a general info letter to be sent to all owners.

Basically we are going to set up a 5-7 person Advisory Committee (we presently have one of 3 members) to work with the Declarant during the transition. Also one of their tasks will be to put in place an election for a BOD so the BOD can be up and running when the actual transition happens.

We are asking owners to volunteer to be on the Advisory Committee. If more then 5-7 volunteer, we will discuss having sub committees like Covenant/Bylaw Review, Elections, Legal, ARC, etc. I would not like to turn anyone down, but it has to be a manageable size.

We do have a very good working relationship with the Declarant. We have had a general discussion about him becoming our PM after the transition. While I believe we could be self run (113 standalone patio homes, no amenities, very little common area, $70K dues income) I think we need someone guiding us (for a year or two) until we have a BOD up to speed.

One thing I am well aware of if the Declarant does become our PM that he understands we will need a full turn over of all documentation and we will want an audit. Also that he will then work for the BOD and do as they wish. I do not see a problem with him and I say this more as a protection for the BOD but he must know his place in the new organization. I think it best we have a two signature checking account based on info I have seen on this chat.

Let me make one thing clear. I believe in total openness, honesty, and participation. That said, the elected BOD runs the HOA, not the Chief Complaining Officers (CCOs). There has to be decorum and procedures. We do not need a "cluster fire drill" in the name of openness.

Keep the advice and ideas coming.

Thanks.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 04/29/2013 7:15 AM

That said, the elected BOD runs the HOA, not the Chief Complaining Officers (CCOs).

Unfortunately, sometimes it's only the CCOs that volunteer and people are more than willing to elect them to the Board simply because they didn't want to do the job themselves.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

John, you wrote: "Basically we are going to set up a 5-7 person Advisory Committee (we presently have one of 3 members) to work with the Declarant during the transition." what does "one of 3 members" mean. sorry, I'm just not grasping it.

Out of curiosity, where will the Advisory Committee hold its meetings?

Our HOA is the opposite of the experience that Tim notes-- the few whiners here never attend our monthly open meetings, never send their complaints in writing, and never would actually serve on the Board or committees. But if the one or two do want to be involved, perhaps you can give them a "special assignment" (however actually meaningless) of some sort, which'd show you truly care about them & are interested in their concerns. This can be enough to calm them. I think this is a more proactive approach than the "benign neglect" you've mentioned from time to time, John.

At the beginning of every open meeting here, homeowners pick up the agenda and on the back is the protocol for participating during meetings (discussed on many old threads). Again, IMO it's crucial to have a clear written agenda and specification of exactly when h'owners may verbally participate during meetings and when they may not. Whiners get too much voice when permitted to yak whenever they feel like it.

A couple of other very general ideas to attract member interest in your HOA. If you have the time & funds, send out a little questionnaire to all owners seeking ideas. Have a deadline for their submission several days before your Committee meets. On it can be some general questions: How long have you lived at XXX?, for example. What aspects of our community do you like the most? Why? What areas in our community could use some improvement? Why?

In Roger's nice transition doc, it's clearly noted that you want a physical audit of your premises--really important! The only worry I'd have about the developer being the MC is that they may discover some construction defects that they might withhold from you. I know I'm being cynical, John, but it does happen even though you've stated that you're all very happy with yours.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Carol

We presently have an Advisory Committee of 3 members (myself included) that were appointed by the Declarant.

For the next few months I see us more of "a working group" then an actual formal committee meetings. While inviting all owners to participate, I think we can get more accomplished having the freedom to meet for "work sessions" when we can and/or need to versus have a fixed "formal meeting" schedule. No one would be barred from a work session and if they attend, they just might end up being on it.....LOL

I see us doing this in two ways. Work sessions would have no formal notice. They will happen as and when needed. Secondly is having a monthly prescheduled/notified meeting.

Again, all are welcome to attend session/meeting/whatever, but I do not want us limited in that we have to raise our hands to go pee....does Davis Stirling have a page on requesting pee breaks during a meeting.....LOL

One member of the Advisory Committee is a school teacher. He loves rules and controlling people. We would need a hall pass to go pee. We have butted heads already.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I'm puzzled, John46. My suggestions have nothing to do with Davis-Stirling. They are my own ideas--some inspired by what I've learned on this forum.

I'll probably keep replying anyway in case my remarks are useful to others who are drawn to this subject..

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Carol

The pee break and Davis Stirling relationship was meant a joke....as in the LOL...Lots Of Laughs comment I added.

Was meant as a joke in our on going teasing/disagreement on the need for something like Davis Stirling.

Sorry if it did not "read" that way....joke....joke....LOL

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Damn the no edit.

Carol

Your comments are most welcome...even if Davis Stirling says....joke...joke....

Please keep the comments coming.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Well, John I see that a lot of folks have viewed your post, but only four of us replied.

Just speculating, but it might be because it sounds like you've already made up your mind that your proposed "working group" "sessions" will be closed. It seems so because you will not give (even short?) notice of these sessions even though you say you believe in total honesty, openness and participation.

I really do think that encouraging the complainers to come out of the woodwork now is better than later.

How did your Wed. night meeting go?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolR11 on 05/02/2013 3:50 PM
Well, John I see that a lot of folks have viewed your post, but only four of us replied.

Just speculating, but it might be because it sounds like you've already made up your mind that your proposed "working group" "sessions" will be closed. It seems so because you will not give (even short?) notice of these sessions even though you say you believe in total honesty, openness and participation.

I really do think that encouraging the complainers to come out of the woodwork now is better than later.

How did your Wed. night meeting go?

Carol

I am not saying a "working group" session will be closed. I would like them to be open but how much effort, expense, time, ec. does one go to make them such?

As an example. A tough working session. All are tired so we say OK let us agree to end this session and start again. What is best for all? All agree on whatever which might be the next evening and no time to formally notify all even if we want to. Let us be realistic about notification.

I agree on getting the complainer/all involved but after inviting all and they do not show/agree/get involved, etc, when does one stop worrying about them?

As far as our Annual Meeting this past Wednesday, we had 14 of 100 owners there and that was after a letter had been sent to all owners saying we would be discussing budget and turnover from the Declarant to the owners. The #1 issue/questions of the owners there was landscaping, power washing of each home, and past dues collection. Not the turnover.

The Declarant and advisory committee (of which I am a member) has decided to send a letter/appeal/notification/call/plea/whatever to all owners informing them of the turnover and inviting each and everyone to volunteer to be part of it like please join us in this.

After that, I say those that step forward will go ahead with the transition and the he!! with those that do not step forward.

Let them eat cake.....LOL

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Well, I imagine notifying members about a meeting the next day would be tricky if you can't send an email blast and have no area to post such notices. But, still, with Melissa, I agree you should do the best you can & if folks complain later, let 'em know that they'd been invited to xx # of meetings on the topic . . .

14 of 100--not too bad. We're lucky if we get 14 of 200+, but it's also true that 43% of our units are rentals and another 10% only live in their unit here part time--urban retreat for some, etc.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You know another approach I just thoughf of to keep others eating cake... Why not ser a deadline of a meeting that all that show up on that day are now the "official" transition committee. After that one may attend but not part of the committee. This way as time gets closer and more want to attend, you have your core in place. You may just decide now to even put committee number in place. That way if any drop out you all can pick up a new one if need be. Plus it limits the hands playing.

Just a thought...

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/04/2013 4:52 PM
You know another approach I just thoughf of to keep others eating cake... Why not ser a deadline of a meeting that all that show up on that day are now the "official" transition committee. After that one may attend but not part of the committee. This way as time gets closer and more want to attend, you have your core in place. You may just decide now to even put committee number in place. That way if any drop out you all can pick up a new one if need be. Plus it limits the hands playing.

Just a thought...

Mel

We are woking up a letter to be mailed to all owners informing them of the transition and needing to put together a Transition BOD and inviting all to participate. We are considering setting up two information meetings two weeks apart to get more involved. If we get more then needed, we will set up committees to work on specifics.

Rough draft of the letter close:

I know it is easy to say well I like what all is happening here so I will just let others do what is needed as my life is busy enough. This is understandable. None of us need more work, but in order to make a smooth transition and assure a bright future for CCHOA, we need owners to care, be concerned, and get involved.

We have a wealth of talent among our homeowners. Let us contribute the talent and time to assure CCHOA is top quality, well run, a place we can be proud to call home. Let us all work together to increase the value of the investment we have made in our homes.

I assure you we are being most open but eventully we have to get down to work and those that wish to participate will get their chance...several of them.

Please keep the ideas/suggestions coming.

Thanks all

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Can I critique your letter? You have a few run on sentences which may not communicate fully what your trying to do. I had a hard time in reading and digesting it. No offense please. This is what I would suggest writing:

Welcome members of XXXX. We are experiencing an exciting time here as there is a planned transition from declarant to the homeowners. This letter is to invite and inform you of a "XXX Transition Committee" being formed for members to attend. If you have questions, concerns, or don't understand what the transition means, please come attend one of our sessions. The meeting date and time are: XXXX Date XXXX Time XXXX Recurrence Rate. (Bold this or make this noticeable)

We encourage homeowners/members of XXX to attend and contribute. The planned time of transition will be : XXXX date. Which means that we need to get an early start so the transition is done as smoothly as possible. Please plan to attend a meeting before we transition so that you have an understanding or have expressed your interest in how we will carry the XXXX when it is given to us the owners to run.

You can tailor what you see above to anything you want. It's just a rough draft of something I may want to read if I were to get a letter about the transition. Good luck!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

What I wrote was the close of the letter. The begging them to join part.....LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well you wouldn't have me begging to join part... Please don't feel insulted. It just doesn't read well. I get what your trying to say though. It's just maybe work on the wording a bit more. I felt that it kind of gave off an "air" of "Oh boy we got another gung-ho yahoo trying to get us involved". You know of the type of which I speak...

If all else fails, bake a cake and invite the people to come enjoy cake while you all get organized! LOL!!!

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Just avoid putting the words "Work" and "Effort" when your trying to get volunteers to do anything. The words should be more like "Contribute" and "together we can achieve". People don't want to be reminded on how "busy" they are and what additional burden this may add to their life. Make it more positive and something that would make you want to volunteer. No one has ever volunteered for Habitat for Humanity because of the physical labor. They volunteer because it makes them feel good and contributing to something bigger than they are. So keep with that train of thought...

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/05/2013 8:03 AM
Just avoid putting the words "Work" and "Effort" when your trying to get volunteers to do anything. The words should be more like "Contribute" and "together we can achieve". People don't want to be reminded on how "busy" they are and what additional burden this may add to their life. Make it more positive and something that would make you want to volunteer. No one has ever volunteered for Habitat for Humanity because of the physical labor. They volunteer because it makes them feel good and contributing to something bigger than they are. So keep with that train of thought...

Good points. For the greater good of society...Karl Marx....LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

"I wouldn't join a club that would have me as a member"... That guy with the cigar and big mustache... LOL!!! I get those Marx brothers mixed up all the time...

PS. I often think of this quote when it comes to HOA's. For those younger folks who don't get the reference. Mr. Marx was a comedian in the 20's and 30's. He wanted to join an exclusive club. They refused his membership so he sued. He won the court case. When they offered him his membership, he refused. Stating simply "I would not join a club that would have me as a member". Suing your HOA often makes me think of this story...LOL!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

MEl

Karl was not one of the Marx Brothers....LOL

The club story is about Groucho Marx.

I sent the club a wire stating, "PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER".

Telegram to the Friar's Club of Beverly Hills to which he belonged, as recounted in Groucho and Me (1959), p. 321

Karl Marx was a German philosopher in the 1800's who advocated socialism. His ideas were "bastardized" as a foundation for communism.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I know. It was a joke about the Marx brothers. LOL!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

Enough. On to the important stuff. Today is Cinco de Mayo. Have you had a Margarita? I have had a few......LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Should have went to Mexico to find my cheating husband today...;-). No margheritas...but maybe some tequila to find the floor!

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Mel

Drink it from the bottle..but be sure to get the worm....it will make your grow......wait....you are a women...drunk women like to put their arms in the air..shake their butt and yell woohoo.....LOL

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

WOOHOO! How do you think the "worm" dance got started? Lol!!!

Former HOA President

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Of the two paragraphs of the draft of the end of your letter to owners, John46, I also think the first one isn't what would work for me. I like the second par. a lot better. To loosen it a bit, perhaps you'd write "let's" instead of "let us." From the fist par., I like "bright future." I think it's a good thing to use the pronoun "our," as in "our community," throughout the letter.

Keep it short, clear & friendly. Instead of saying that you "need" owner involvement say that comm. "welcomes" involvement and "your idea power." Kinda cheesy, I know, but it's flattering.

Finally, I've learned that there definitely are owners who won't know what "declarant" means nor "transition." I'd define early in your letter.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bit of an update on our transition. No formal notice has been sent out yet but the chat has started.

I was approached by 3 homeowners asking if I was goiung to run for the BOD. I said I was not sure. I said I was willing to work on helping with the transition but not sure if I would run for the BOD.

I was asked my opinion on some landscape improvements. I replied well it seems you 3 have discussed them. They said they had. I replied the improvements sounded good to me but how would they be paid for. They said well raising dues $100.00 per year, per home (from $600 to $700) would certainly cover it plus some. I said personally I would pay $100 more per year for some landscape approvals. They said well we are considering running for the BOD and making it happen when we "take over" and they were wondering if I would join in making it happen.

I asked how making it happen? They we raise the dues. I replied well our docs do allow the BOD to raise dues 5% a year but anything higher would have to be approved by a majority of owners as in require a vote. The main spokes person of the 3 asked if I was sure. I asked how many of them had read the docs about dues raises? All 3 admitted they had not. I said while I might agree with the ideas, you should read the docs.

I also reminded them that the improvements they were talking about doing are down "our end" of the neighborhod where our houses surround or overlook a pond. I asked do you think those that never come down here (dead end) really care about beautifying the pond? Of 113 homes, probably 70 of them never see the pond unless they drive down this end.

I am stuck here. If they are the types that will be running for the BOD, part of me says they need advice. Someone on the BOD that kind of knows how things should be done. Then part of me says the he!! with them. Stay out of it and let them learn. I try my best to keep aggravation out of my life. I have promised to help during the transition but at this time, I doubt I will be running for the BOD.

I am to old for this crap.........LOL

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Well another update.

Several owners have made it known they would like to be on the transition committee/work groups. This afternoon we had a meet and greet meeting. It turned out to be a horror show. Two of the new folks moved here from condos in FL. They did not know each other there. Both of them claim to have been on BOD's in FL. It was obvious that they had talked with each other prior to the mmet and greet as they were somewhat in lock step.

I decided to keep a low profile but I was edged on.....LOL

It was obvious their views, opinions, beliefs, etc. were based on FL Condo Associations and FL's multitude of laws, regulations, etc. I do not even think they understood FL that well. The conversation got around to proxies and collecting such. I asked did they realize that our Bylaws say proxies are not allowed. They said no way, it is a state law that they are allowed. It went down hill from there.........LOL

I am now fully convinced I will not be running for the BOD here. I am also sorry that I have said I will help in the transition and I am now looking for an excuse to get out of that.

I am just going to sit back and enjoy living here.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

John46, your knowledge of your HOA and your developer will really serve your community well. It sounds as though these former FL HOA "experts" need some educating about SC and your HOA's bylaws. I hope you will find a transitional role that benefits everyone!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Do you think this situation is going to change when you became your own HOA? What your dealing with now will be what you deal with when your on your own. Just can't blame the developer for it.

Your always going to have "Experts" and "raving/roving idiots" to deal with. These people may or may not get elected to the board once you all turnover. That should be your main concern is will they become board members? If you step away, then your giving them an opportunity to do just that and you not on the board.

So learn to work together and move on. Your all in this together...

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Carol and Mel

At my age, I am less able to put up with those that do not take the time to learn. I will attend/participate in the first few "official" transition meetings as I promised to do. What I am sensing at this time is the first meeting will be mainly people coming forward with their own pet peeves (landscaping around the pond being a main one for many of the vocal ones) versus people wanting to help with the transition.

If after a few meetings I do not see some reasonable people able to keep their eye on the ball (the transition), then I will slowly back out of participation and simply go on enjoying my life. I will be comfortable doing so as there is little they can screw up.

As a reminder. We are a small association with 113 standalone homes with no ameneties and little common property. The main issues seem to be wanting more for their dues and/or raising dues versus cutting dues and causing finacial problems. There is little to screw up.

I could always step in and run for the BOD at a later time. At least by then some might have learned how things are done...LOL

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