Florida HOA bill passed!

every bit helps us...tell Scott to sign

Dear Florida Homeowner and Condo Owner:

Today's message is short and very sweet:
The Senate substituted H7119/CS for S580 and voted 37:0 in favor of the bill. Please see our website for all the details and the wording of the final version. ( http://www.hoareformbill.net/HOUSE.html )

http://www.hoareformbill.net/index.html
The bill goes now to Governor Rick Scott, who has 7 days to act on it.
I ask you to please make one concentrated effort to send an e-mail to Governor Rick Scott asking him to sign H7119 into law! It's a great homeowner-friendly bill that will help solving many of the problems in homeowners' associations.
His e-mail address:

[email protected]

IT'S IMPORTANT!

Please make sure that you are sending as well e-mails thanking
Senator Alan Hays ([email protected]),
Representative Mike LaRosa ([email protected]) and
Representative Debbie Mayfield ([email protected])

for their strong support of our cause! Without their help we could have never succeeded!

Cyber Citizens For Justice, Inc.

For more detailed information about the
HOA/CONDO REFORM BILL please go to:
http://www.hoareformbill.net/
You find the exact wording of the bills, the info about the bill sponsors and you get the latest news regarding the bills. The website will be updated daily and will post any alerts as soon as they become available. It gives you all the necessary tools to help promote these bills.

I am only passing info.
I'm not promoting anything...just the bill info that will affect FL/HOA.
I don't know how to edit...but anyone (moderators) can remove the group name...IF it is a violation.

You know when you sign up to a site and it asks if you read all the details???
Wellllll, I didn't.....
Sorry...I won't do it again.

Marlee,

Keeping my fingers crossed that this passes for you and all other Floridians. I read the proposed bill and it is chock full of sensible measures.

Boy there sure are a lot of wannabe moderators on here. Don't be discouraged by the reprimands - most of us just ignore it.

Good luck!

Peter,

The Bill only specifies 90 days from election or appointment. It does not grandfather existing Directors. Common sense would say that the Directors would likely have 90 days from the date the law becomes effective.

I wouldn't sweat the issue. The only penalty for not having a written statement on file is suspension from the Board until the statement is filed with the Board secretary. Of course, there is no method of verification for such action except by the membership examining the statements.

Please note that that section only has minimal consequences if the Association, the Board or an individual Director chose to ignore it:

If an individual decided to sign such a statement even though they didn't actually read the documents, other than not being able to claim in a court of law that they were unaware that something was in the governing documents, there is no other real consequence and it would be up to the individual to prove that the statement was falsely signed. Mind you the argument to such a claim could be that the individual simply forgot what the document said.

If an individual chose not to sign, it's up to the Board to hold them accountable. If the Board isn't paying attention and the membership doesn't verify, then it's likely the individual would never be suspended from the Board. In fact, even if the Board chose to simply ignore that section of the law and no-one signed a statement, the law states the failure to have the written certification or educational certificate on file does not affect the validity of any board action.

Hence, in my mind that whole section is nothing more than a feel good statute. It makes the membership feel good knowing the statute exists but there is no real consequence if that section isn't complied with.

Jon,

There is more in the bill.
Since Peter only asked about that section, I only commented about that section.

If anyone is interested, I did provide a link to the full text of the bill in that post.

I think the broader access to records is HUGE. A significant portion of the complaints on this forum stem from reluctance or refusal of Boards/Treasurers to provide documents.

Well said.

Val

What many of us believe is that in every group of any type, there will always be a fool or two (they do not all wear tin foil hats, but some do) and why should the group "pay" to honor the foolish requests.

Is a homeowner entitled to see the receipt? He!! yes.

While I am all for being open, the request for the receipt of the two bolts is rather inane but not an untypical request.

Now I can see having the old boxes of files readily available (I believe that was part of the Bill) and say OK requestor what you want is in here. Have at it. Make a copy of anything as long as that copy does not cost the association anything. Bring your computer and scanner. Have at it.

Few associations are so automated that a simple press of a button will yield the receipt. Even if automated, is not someones time, computer cost, paper/ink cost to print out the receipt worth something?

All I ask is fair payment.

Val

Great point and one I agree with.

My guess those who hold the belief that making records available is nothing more than a simple act have NEVER themselves been required to do so themselves in any capacity. And to suggest any volunteer who now decides that their time should not be wasted on collecting records should reconsider their role on the Board is IMO nonsense.

Over the years we have had three occasions when we were required to provide financial records. Other than that the great number of interested owners have not asked for copies of anything. By the way requesting records doesn't always serve as an attempt to become involved. In our case each time it was an attempt to uncover perceived misuse of funds which turned out to be ZERO.

Now lets cover practical issues. On our property we have existed for more than 30 YEARS, is there a limit to how far we can go back? Many years the records are paper files loaded in boxes which someone would need to got through. Today's records are mostly on computer but there are still paper documents which increase day after day. Do those who support record turnover even understand what records are generated each month and the volume of those records? My guess they haven't a clue.

And in our case our records are held at our MC's office and the computers used hold the records for the additional properties this MC manages. Would you simply allow someone to come into the office and have free access to "explore" whatever they wished? I know our MC would never allow that.

Or should someone sit there and respond the every request made? And who pays for their time and does their job while we go on this wild goose chase? But some here have already decided this is a price they are willing to pay with other people's money. I wonder how the other owners might feel about that.

IMO those who blindly support laws such as this have no real clue what is required of Boards and MCs already and would ask us all to believe this is just one more thing volunteers should happily do. In my dealings not ONCE have these requests had a legitimate purpose. If you attend meetings, read audits, go over P&Ls, financial reports of officers and ask questions IMO this is more than enough information for the vast majority of owners. And as I said in over 27 years we have been asked 3 times for records.

And IF you decide requesting records is taking part in the community's management as someone suggested my suggestion go one step further and run for the Board and IF you are able to win ( I doubt it) sit back and wait for others to tell you what it is you should do and why you need to do more while they sit by and do nothing. Folks in the cheap seats seem to always have lots of "good" ideas about what needs to be done and why and that includes adding MORE to the efforts of those who volunteer their time because they say so.

IF you believe this law, with no enforcement. will solve your problems you are kidding yourself. More laws NEVER provide everything you thought you were going to get. IF you believe this is issue #1 then needs to be addressed by the average HOA in Florida or any other state my guess you don't hold a Board position and never will.

Florida and California have a long history of passing and pushing for numerous NEW laws and guidelines for HOA governance NONE have accomplished what they were designed to do. My guess this is more of the same. I just have to wonder how the other 48 states manage.....................

So far through this thread I think we have just 2 Florida residents commenting.
Quite a following and outcry for change and new laws.

Val

I would hazard a guess that well over 95% of all legislation passed is done so at the request/donations of special interests and few if any of the people it will affect ever know about it.

(Mel, how is that for a run on sentence. I love run on sentences.........LOL)

I for one have talked to my State Rep and State Senator about keeping a bill on HOA's tied up/dead in an SC House Committee where it has languished for several years. They both knew little to nothing about it until I mentioned it thus their entire constituent input on it has been me.....LOL

Kevin

Understand I want the bill in SC to stay dead. I do not want the politicians/bureaucrats telling associations what to do. I could be wrong, but I believe you are looking for more individual homeowner control over the association whereas I want less.

I don't necessarily believe more individual homeowner control is in order (although I am not opposed). I just think there should be more protections. Transparency is fine and dandy but I think that when there are issues of abuse it should be easier to protect the homeowner and prevent boards from abusing their authority and forcing a homeowner to have to pay when the board is in the wrong.

Kevin I completely agree. It is my hope that bills like this will aid on that.

I worked closely and diligently with Kansas legislators to pass a bill into law; Kansas Uniform Common Interests Owners Bill Of Rights Act, effective January 1, 2011.

It is far from PERFECT. However, what I was told is getting the statue in place and going back later to amend it is far easier than introducing a bill that will not pass.

I agree the Florida bill is not perfect but if anybody benefits some from it, it's worth having it on the books.

Congratulations to those who worked on the bill. It is a difficult and time-consuming task. If you are in a state where you are wanting laws to govern HOAs be sure you are willing to be at every committee meeting, every House and Senate meeting about the bill, and be there on the day the House and Senate vote. In the meantime, email, call and keep in touch with your legislators about it. There will be plenty of lobbyists up against you...fighting you all the way. Getting a law passed is not for the timid, weak, or the emotionally out of control. It's a roller coaster ride like no other.

NDR

When I hear that it is the Owners' fault for not getting involved yada yada...it makes me angry. HOA's are not one-size-fits all. It is a presumptous statement and ignores the fundamental flaws in the structure of the quasi-governmental body.

First, it is presumptuous to assume that the Owner's have NOT tried to get involved; secondly by presuming that HOA's are structured to be fair and efficient private governmental entities without ANY oversight or enforcement by the state, and third, that all homeowners are physically, emotionally or cognitively able to get involved.

Florida tried to get a bill that would require HOA's to donate $4/owner toward an enforcement "superfund"; of course, that never went anywhere...yet. Florida has had a lot of legislation that is becoming increasingly consumer hostile. At least this bill did have something to offer, especially the records provision. The problem is everytime they revise the records provision the Boards just find a way to close it back up or ignore it--because there is no oversight or enforcement and no desire on the part of many HOA's to be transparent (regardless of whether or not they are doing anything "wrong.)

Florida also has more than its share of elderly and out-of-state snowbirds living in these communities and this does not lend itself to "getting involved" for some obvious reasons. Our over-55+ park has 75% seasonal Canadians and they don't really care what the HOA does as long as the assessment fee doesn't go up. A great many elderly owners have retired their brains and have no desire to learn anything new or fuss with their Board.

The reality is that the private governmental model run by volunteer amateurs tends to attract people who have a need to control and this, coupled with arrogant attitudes that "we can do what ever we want and if you don't like it, sue us" and huge egos, is a recipe for a dysfunctional HOA and there is not a darn thing a complacent, uninterested and demographically diverse ownership will reasonably do. I know noone that wants to devote their retired life to being a watchdog to an autocratic HOA and a taxpayer system that provides no relief from HOA abuse.

Excellent points Gwen. As you would expect, most posters here are current or former Board members and it seems to ruffle some of their feathers that there would be any <> oversight.

My neighborhood is a former 55+ community. It changed years ago but the average age is still upwards to 60. I am one of the younger owners here. Half the owners I have spoken to have no idea how the neighborhood works. They are unaware of covenants and restrictions, or even amendments made. When I try to explain things to them they don't understand. The refer back to when they bought their house 30 years ago. The other half (the newer homeowners) seem to think of the HOA as something that just is - their membership is just another monthly bill that was there when they moved in (because the HOA told them it was mandatory).

Recently there has been some turmoil over the election. I don't know all of the details but some homeowners handed out petitions for a special meeting and for a recall. Apparently there was some dispute over the election last year. I was asked to sign the petition. I told them that I was not a member and that I had no right to sign. The homeowner responded that I should sign so they could hold their recall. I tried helping them but they still didn't get it.

The only homeowners I have heard who want more HOA covenants and restrictions, as well as common property is the board president. I really don't think they get the pulse of the neighborhood.