vinyl fencing

RoseE (Illinois)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Hello,

Ours is a fairly new HOA. One of the home owners wants to install vinyl fencing. We (the board) are not sure if the bylaws allow that type of material. Here is the exact wording from our handbook:

4.2.1 Fences: Chain link fences are prohibited. Scalloped red cedar, closed dog ear red cedar or decorative ornamental iron or pre-finished aluminum fencing shall be permitted with a fence permit issued by the municipality. All fencing shall be placed to benefit the Owner's neighbors with the finished side of the fence facing away from the Owner's lot.

Some board members say that the vinyl can not be installed as it is not in the allowed list and some think it is OK to install. We would like to hear from the HOA community.

Thanks
Rose

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Hold a vote to amend the bylaws to allow for vinyl fencing on the permitted list. If the proper percentage of homeowners (according to your docs) want or DO NOT want vinyl fencing you will have your answer.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

Well they can't say it's OK to install according to the list because it's not in the list. The list is quite specific. What they are saying is that personally they feel the list is too restrictive.

SteveM is right, the proper thing to do is to amend the bylaws (if possible).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Rose

You say you quoted from your Handbook thus I might ask is the Fence Guideline a Covenant or Bylaw versus a Rule and Regulation?

If it is Rule and Regulation (which I assume it probably is) then the BOD has the power to change it.

Hope this helps.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I have the same question as John46: Is it a bylaw (might be hard to change), or a Rule (usually found in some sort of a Handbook and may be easy to change.)?

The number in front of your cite, however, looks more like a CC&R or bylaw.

Bylaws show the required structure of the board, election & recall procedures, etc.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoseE on 04/24/2013 7:06 PM

4.2.1 Fences: Chain link fences are prohibited. Scalloped red cedar, closed dog ear red cedar or decorative ornamental iron or pre-finished aluminum fencing shall be permitted with a fence permit issued by the municipality. All fencing shall be placed to benefit the Owner's neighbors with the finished side of the fence facing away from the Owner's lot.

This sounds like a guideline.

Rules/Regulations are for defining what activities and/or behavior is or isn't acceptable on the common areas.

Guidelines are standards an approving authority (Architectural Committee/Board) uses to standardize what may or may not be approved for exterior changes to Lots. In this case, it appears that the guideline specifies the following:

1) Styles that may not be denied: Scalloped, closed dog ear or decorative ornamental.
2) Installation: Finished side faces away from lot
3) Conditions: permit required from city
4) Materials that may not be denied: Red Cedar, wrought Iron, pre-finished aluminum
5) Materials prohibited: Chain Link

An argument can be made that since the guideline did specify what is prohibited, the approving authority may consider all other materials (plastic, cinder block, composite, redwood, etc.) with the specification that any requests made with some specific materials may not be denied based on materiel type.

An argument could also be made that since the guideline specified what material would be permitted that only those materials may be used.

Personally, based on the language used, I would interpret the guideline as that, a guideline. Since it only excluded one type of material the approving authority is free to use it's own judgement on any other material. When making it's decision, the committee should keep in mind the style of fences used within the community and make sure the style in requested is harmonious to the development.

I'd suggest a sample of the material be provided when making the request.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Tim makes an excellent point, Rose. Whatever your document is, it doesn't specifically prohibit vinyl. You wrote that you're a fairly new HOA. So, are you still under the developer's (declarant) contrail? Or do owners control your HOA?

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/25/2013 8:52 AM

Posted By RoseE on 04/24/2013 7:06 PM

4.2.1 Fences: Chain link fences are prohibited. Scalloped red cedar, closed dog ear red cedar or decorative ornamental iron or pre-finished aluminum fencing shall be permitted with a fence permit issued by the municipality. All fencing shall be placed to benefit the Owner's neighbors with the finished side of the fence facing away from the Owner's lot.

This sounds like a guideline.

Rules/Regulations are for defining what activities and/or behavior is or isn't acceptable on the common areas.

Guidelines are standards an approving authority (Architectural Committee/Board) uses to standardize what may or may not be approved for exterior changes to Lots. In this case, it appears that the guideline specifies the following:

1) Styles that may not be denied: Scalloped, closed dog ear or decorative ornamental.
2) Installation: Finished side faces away from lot
3) Conditions: permit required from city
4) Materials that may not be denied: Red Cedar, wrought Iron, pre-finished aluminum
5) Materials prohibited: Chain Link

An argument can be made that since the guideline did specify what is prohibited, the approving authority may consider all other materials (plastic, cinder block, composite, redwood, etc.) with the specification that any requests made with some specific materials may not be denied based on materiel type.

An argument could also be made that since the guideline specified what material would be permitted that only those materials may be used.

Personally, based on the language used, I would interpret the guideline as that, a guideline. Since it only excluded one type of material the approving authority is free to use it's own judgement on any other material. When making it's decision, the committee should keep in mind the style of fences used within the community and make sure the style in requested is harmonious to the development.

I'd suggest a sample of the material be provided when making the request.

The word "Shall" makes the difference to me and tells me that the HOA homes feature fences are made of these materials exclusively. Vinyl may fall under any aesthetic appearance conformity rules of the HOA. I don't like vinyl. It looks cheap and cut-rate so I'll admit my bias now.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

In this case, to me, the word "shall" simply specifies that those materials may not be denied vs. being exclusive. Otherwise, why prohibit only one specific style vs simply stating "only xyz fencing shall be approved."

Again, I agree it can certainly be interpreted either way. Therefore, let the committee take a vote and each vote according to their own interpretation. The other option would be to seek a legal opinion for clarification.