Compliance Committee & Fining

Question regarding compliance committees and fining..

I received 4 violations on March 14, 2013. They all requested the violations be tended to IMMEDIATELY. he violations are as follows: Fence repair/paint, Change window covering, Driveway Faded and Re-Sod Lawn. I called property manager and told him that's not very fair. He agreed and told me that I would be given more time. I requested a time frame be given to me and the reply was "A reasonable amount of time" - To me that is quite arbitrary and not very fair. I was looking for 30 days, 45 days. Not when the board has a bad day and decides they want to fine people.

Last week I attended a compliance committee meeting for my 4 violations. T As I talked to the committee, they told me they only showed 3 violations. I told them the 4th was a window covering and they told me this was not a valid violation. Supposedly a neighborhood can't tell you how to cover your windows (for those who care, I had a blanked covering my newborn's window to block sun from daylight savings time until I could get curtains hung). I thought this was a bit fishy as to why they didn't submit the violation to committee. Next thing we went over was the fence. I told them fence was completed and they showed a property manager agreed. Now to the fence & lawn. I explained to them that I needed more time for my fence and driveway due to me only being able to complete work on the weekend. They agreed with me and gave me 30-day extension for lawn and then 45-day extension for driveway (needed extra 15 days so I can get driveway paint color approved before work starts with ARC committee). I left the meeting feeling like they were somewhat fair and I would get work done. I ended up re-sodding my lawn this weekend.

Then I receive a letter 2 days later stating that the compliance committee cannot grant extensions and that if I need an extension, I have to send certified letter to clubhouse. I then receive another letter the same day saying I am being fined $20/day for each violation. The fine letters are not signed by property manager (the other letter is signed) and they were sent regular mail. First thing, is this correct? Can a compliance committee not extend time? And if they extended time, can't that just be a decision that states they don't want to fine us until that date? I received these fine letters 35 days from original violation letter.

Next thing is that our compliance committee only consists of 2 people. If you read the Florida Statutes, you will find this:

720.305.2B (Link: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html )

A fine or suspension may not be imposed without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.

What happens if you don't have 3 people on committee to give you a hearing? Can we not be fined until we get a 3rd member? Just looking for a little help. I plan on being online all night if people have questions/comments/suggestons. Thank you for your time!

The board won't let us speak at BOD meetings unless we find 20% of homeowners to sign off on our issue. With that being said, I can get work done before I find 20% to sign off and get to speak on agenda.

I have an issue with stating stuff being needed done IMMEDIATELY. I can understand if I left my garbage can at bottom of driveway for a week (or even the window covering; which I took down immediately but put back up when I didn't see anything in by-laws telling me how to cover windows). There is nothing for me to pursue with this?

And the real question is, what can compliance committee do? And how can I be fined if they are unable to give me a hearing on violations with 3 committee members like it states in the statute above? The BOD President has a personal problem with me and I'm tired of fixing stuff to get another letter the next month. I receive dirty driveway letter at beginning of year and then I pressure cleaned it. Now I have to paint it? It was faded back then the same.

Where are my FL people who know the laws? HELP!

I will request the minutes. They take them during the meeting so there should be record. Whether the Board & property manager lets me purchase them will be another adventure. As for the 14-day's notice, I received letters on 3/14/13 and requested meeting with compliance committee that night in an email. At that time I was told that I needed to send a certified letter to the office and that unless I was being fined currently, I couldn't receive a meeting. I had a correspondence received in letter form on 3/21/13 that stated I would be given a reasonable amount of time to fix my violations. Again, this is quite arbitrary for a deadline (especially when speaking fines and maybe liens on my property). They had the BOD meeting on 3/25/13 and then I received a correspondence on 4/9/13 saying in email that I would have a hearing on 4/17/13. Not sure how rules changed since originally requested a meeting but they obviously did. I attended this meeting where I received my extensions.

I think the president is sending me bogus stuff because about 25% of the letters/violations are signed by a property manager. When I moved in, all letters were signed by actual manager on duty but then again, this president wasn't in charge then. We have had over 14 property managers in a 2-year span and like 4 or 5 different management companies. We think because president runs them off and they quit but they claim it's always some reason. People see the writing on the wall but with only 4 or 5 members at each meeting, we hardly have a voice. And we can't talk unless it is an agenda item or we get 20% signed off on. And when we talk they completely ignore us and there is awkward silence after homeowner statement and someone will say "We will get back to you" It's a laughing stock. Homeowners have made a website to document that craziness http://boyntonlakesnorth.tumblr.com

The only stuff I see about compliance committee is the rule I posted in original post. I am going to re-read by-laws and documents to see what it states in there. I don't recall.

We have documents but no where it states 20% rule. Here is FL statute stuff I found regarding this absurd rule..

By Florida HOA laws, if members want to discuss an issue not currently on the agenda, 20 percent of the members who vote must petition the board to address that particular issue. The Board will then have 60 days to address the issue at a meeting.
Read more: HOA Laws in Florida | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7229297_hoa-laws-florida.html#ixzz2RF7MGDXz

Again, I am re-reading over everything to see if there is anything in our docs that overrules these Florida Statutes. I don't recall but I want to be 100%. These people are driving me nuts!!

Correct

I gotta admit, I've never seen a painted driveway.

Boynton,

Although the MC works for and at the direction of the Board, it's not unusual for the MC contract to stipulate that they receive a portion of any fines associated with covenant enforcement. When contracts have this type of language, it's possible that the MC sees violations as a revenue stream and they become over-zealous in their enforcement measures.

You should obtain and review a copy of the MC contract to see if this is the case. It won't change anything but at least you will have a better understanding of what your dealing with.

They were asked tonight in a BOD meeting and we don't have a fining schedule. They did state that it is between $5-20/day per violation.

We really need clarification on the following...

720.305.2B (Link: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html )

A fine or suspension may not be imposed without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.

If a committee is only 2 members, can your fine be approved? I don't see anywhere in Florida Statutes where it says how to fall back if there is not enough of a committee.

You live under a bad HOA board that's inconsistent, passive-aggressive and can't judge a property owner's good-faith efforts.

Wow. You are right. Apparently in 2010, the FL legislature removed the wording regarding authorization to fine in the governing documents. The good news for you is that your Association has a cap of $1000.00 on the fines and can't place liens on fines of $1000.00 or less (because your Declaration doesn't authorize fining of more than $1000.00). Check out SENATE BILL 1196: A Guidebook for Community Associations (p.13).

I'm not a lawyer, and in fact came here to post my own question before I got caught up in yours (which I'll do shortly). But it seems the answer to your question about only 2 committee members is answered in the statute. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.

It would seem that the committee of two can't approve a fine and therefore, neither can your Association impose one.

Good luck. Kelly's assessment of your BOD seems highly accurate.

Carol

Would not two of two be a majority?

I have painted my fence and repaired it one weekend and last weekend I sod'd my driveway. With the driveway being sod'd, I can't paint the driveway until that settles. Sorry I have a newborn and a family that I like to spend time with sometimes. I'm not saying I won't do it, I'm just saying you can't send 3 letters for painted driveway, painted fence, and re-sod lawn with a deadline of immediately. These are all things that have to be done on the weekend (if you dont want to pay out the nose for it to be done).

I did the walk from our clubhouse to my house yesterday and you pass 5 driveways that are 10x worse than mine yet none of the addresses were called in the compliance meeting. Sounds a bit selective? Just looking for equality around the neighborhood. I've completed 2 rather large jobs in the last month, is that enough to show that we are trying?

Yes I agree it is showing you are trying and I think if presented as such (yes you are correct dear, yes I am sorry dear, yes I will mend my ways dear, etc.) and the cooler/smarter heads in your association will accept it. Just sell it to them versus try and play outhouse lawyer like quoting law and saying well other places look like this and that.

Kiss and makeup.

You must be on a board..hah - These people are complete morons and I'm starting to see that you can't fight morons because they just don't have any common sense.

Look at these docs posted regarding president of our board...

http://boyntonlakesnorth.tumblr.com/post/47656037591/a-leopard-doesnt-change-its-spots
http://boyntonlakesnorth.tumblr.com/post/42183099160/richardwisebrokethelaw

John, I will kiss their ass in an extension letter tonight for you. I'm just a guy on principle.