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CathleenH (Wisconsin)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I am a new (less than 6 months) volunteer Board Member/Secretary for a 14 building condo. I have a situation and would like some advice on how to handle it.

I live in a Pet-Friendly 4-unit building and have two "indoor spayed cats" that were approved by the two person board when I bought my unit in 2011. I would like to adopt a rescue kitten and my building neigbors are ok with me getting another cat. Should I have my neighbors (one of them is also a board member) sign something that that are ok with me having 3 cats and bring this to the Board Meeting?

Regarding the next meeting, the President told me the exception request needs to be voted on by the board. We have a 5 member board. Do I abstain from voting? If I don't vote, it will most likely be a tie. Doesn't a tie mean "no"? Or how in the Condo world are ties broken? I want to adopt another cat but as a responsible pet owner and responsibile Board Member, I want to do this right. Unfortunately, our Condo President and her VP are two peas in a pod who will vote no just because they can.

Any assistance with this question would be appreciated.

Thanks
Cathleen
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What is the rule on pet ownership in your HOA. I did not see you state the rule to have an idea if it's a yeah or nay. Most HOA's don't need to approve pet ownership unless it is written in somewhere. Plus if the cat's are to live indoors at all times, I don't see why anyone should care as long as it is spayed and nuetered.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathleenH on 04/08/2013 9:37 PM
Should I have my neighbors (one of them is also a board member) sign something that that are ok with me having 3 cats and bring this to the Board Meeting?

It's always good to bring statements from neighbors and anyone else that may be affected by the issue. This minimizes second guessing by the Board that neighbors will have problems if you do this.

Quote:
Posted By CathleenH on 04/08/2013 9:37 PM

Do I abstain from voting?

In my opinion, yes, as there is a clear conflict of interest.

Quote:
Posted By CathleenH on 04/08/2013 9:37 PM

If I don't vote, it will most likely be a tie. Doesn't a tie mean "no"?

A tie means that the motion fails to pass.
Depending on the wording of the motion a tie may mean yes or no.

Quote:
Posted By CathleenH on 04/08/2013 9:37 PM

how in the Condo world are ties broken?

You could request that the issue is taken to the membership.
You lobby and bring the issue up again once you have support.

NOTE: If the limitation on number of pets is in the CC&Rs, then the Board would have zero authority to grant a waiver unless the CC&Rs gives them that authority.

CathleenH (Wisconsin)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Thank you for replying. In our Association, individual buildings (4 units each) are designated Pet-Friendly. Designation could be changed with 100% vote of that building. The Association bylaws for Pet-Friendly buildings allow 1 pet with size limits and rules that generally pertaining to when dogs are outside. As I stated earlier, when I bought my unit the board approved two cats as exception to the rule.

I really wanted to confirm that I should abstain from voting on this particular issue (though my vote tips the scale in my favor...darn! lol!) My next step will be to research is how ties are handled. As a new Board Member, I should know what our documents state.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Cathleen, Tim is correct to state that a tie means the motion fails. This is the rules in all kinds of organizations, not just HOAs. If the motion is to permit Cathleen XX in Unit xx to have 3 cats and the vote is a tie, it doesn't pass. Often this rule about ties isn't in our own HOA documents, but you can find it in Robert's Rules of Order.

You don't get to vote on this matter unless the board permits your vote because you have a "conflict of interest." You would benefit differently than anyone else in your HOA so it would be very difficult for you to vote to prohibit another cat.

You talk about your rules and your bylaws limiting pets, is it actually your "rules," or your declaration (CC&Rs). As a board member, you should learn about what your governing documents say--it's important. If your CC&Rs say no more than one pet, the Board has no authority to permit 2 or 3.
CathleenH (Wisconsin)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I appreciate all the responses. While this particular issue is personal, this is a great way for me to learn and understand the governing documents and be a good Board Member who is fair to everyone. Here's my dumb question for the day..are CC&R's, Bylaws, and Rules and Regulations mutually exclusive from one another or does one take presidence over another?

CarolR11 - A Pet section under Rules and Regulations says "pets" are allowed in designated buildings. The specific/limitations are in an addendum to that specific Rule. The Bylaws state that, "the Board of Directors shall adopt rules for regulation of the user and enjoyment of the condo." So is that saying the Board adopts the Rules and Regulations, correct?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
No document should conflict with another. If there is a conflict then the document that has control (must be complied with) is based on the following precedence:

Federal Laws
Federal Regulations
State Laws
State Regulations
County Codes
City Ordinances
Declaration of Covenants Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs)
Articles of Incorporation
Bylaws
Resolutions (which include additional rules and regs adopted by the Board)

You must read each applicable section completely as often, especially in the case of Corporate laws, the higher precedent document may defer to a lower precedent document.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Good for you for wanting to learn more about your HOA! Some new directors are, indeed, seat-warmers, or only have specific self-intrested goals.

Yes, bylaws trump Rules & Regs. Your CC&Rs supersede both. So, yes, your board can change, add or delete rules. In CA, by state law, we must send the board-proposed rule changes out to Owners for a 30-day comment period. That may not be required in Wisc. Then in CA the board meets to approve the change(s), or not.

In the rules about pets, what does the amendment say?

Since your documents state that the owners of each 4-unit building need to approve additional pets, do follow Tim's advice and get a short & sweet note from the other three owners in your building addressed to the Board. This wouldn't be a rule change --you're not requesting that all owners be permitted to have more than one pet (in your "pet friendly" buildings). Along with the other director in your building, it would probably help if the other two owners attend the meeting where this'll be decided.

Do make sure that there's no limit on dogs/cats in your CC&Rs.
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
On our board, the president only votes if there is a tie. It is my understanding that is in Roberts' Rules of Order. That would solve your issue.

I do think that you need to be very familiar with your community's rules and make sure that another pet is allowed. And, if so, it would definitely help to have the blessing of the other homeowners.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I've been trying to learn Robert's Rules and see that boards of 12 or fewer generally permit the president to participate in voting, etc. The president votes to make or break a tie in larger groups. But Bruce is the RONR expert on this forum!

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