How we give advice on here

This is just a quick post for those who come here for some help. No one here are "experts" but we are extremely experienced in HOA's. We are volunteers on this site and in our own HOA's. Many of us have "been there done that" which could be helpful to you new to the HOA world. There are a few regulars on here. You can tell by looking at the number of postings under their names. We all come from different areas of the country and each offer a different look at your situation.

We are also NOT lawyers. So don't take our advice as "Legal". We may offer you a direction or put a few law quote/references. However, we do not practice law. Translation of the law is up to a paid attorney. Which if your a board member the HOA attorney represents the WHOLE of the HOA. Contact should be limited to one source and agreed to pay the cost of the lawyer. If your an individual member, the HOA attorney is NOT your personal attorney. You have to get your own and pay them out of your pocket. That's because if you sue your HOA, your suing yourself and your neighbors. That HOA attorney is the very attorney who is going to represent the HOA in court. So when we say contact your attorney know the difference.

Our advice on here is from both views of being a board member and being a HOA member. We understand the way your board may be making the decisions they are making. Which means we may indeed play "Devil's advocate" when giving advice. It is not because we are taking sides but giving the other sides view to help you better. We all have also suffered under some bad HOA situations as members and can have some empathy in your situation. Just know we are going to call a spade a spade and you may not always like what we have to say. Just don't get mad at the messenger.

All in all we have a really good group. I am sure other of the regulars will post on this as well. This is a chance for you to understand that we are not lawyers, laws do vary in each state, and that we do this just because we want to help. It is "free" advice so take it as you will. Just don't call us names or abuse the board because of it. You will be reported and banned. Thank you and feel free to ask any question. Promise you that we will do the best we can on what you provide us.

TO: Melissa and all the 'regulars' she mentions

First, a BIG THANK YOU to the many people here lending a helping hand to so many others in need your help and advice!
Lots of you have been here for years and your willingness to share and help is much appreciated.

I'm pinning this post at the top of the forum for a while so new members can get an idea of how to interact here.

Thank You
HOATalk.com

Thank you HOAtalk. Your website has helped many HOA members and spread education. It has always been one of the best HOA sites available.

My HOA experience started after I moved into one. It is a long complicated story with a con man president who was in office. My first official position was Vice president. After successfully proving myself, I was elected as President the next year. That year I fired the lawncare contractor and any friends of the previous president. The previous president also functioned as a "handyman". I forced him to be licensed and insured if he were to get bids. I insituted a 3 bid policy on all contracts and a 6 months behind on dues we liened. I did foreclose on a property for over 2 years of unpaid dues.

Basically straightened out the HOA and brought back into alignment with the rules. Which I brought to each meeting. I spent alot of time educating our members on the rules and referenced them when questions were answered. Things improved and house sales skyrocketed. Plus the HOA never looked better as properties were addressed and cleaned up.

Now I have also been on the other side and fought against my HOA. The new board who replaced me did things wrong. They forced a unnecessary special assessment without the proper vote or work needed. Me and other owners had to hire a lawyer. The board then told lies about me to get their vote to make it legal. Later, many members apologizes to me because they learned they were lied to. It was too late to win.

So when I give advice it is not only from a President view but also someone who has been abused by their HOA. This view should help you learn how to beat your HOA or educate on how one works. I am not perfect. As others on here we can only answer by the information provided by the poster. I help because someone helped me...

There would seem to be some confusion as to the purpose or intent of this site and those who put it together. The flyer at the top of the home page refers to "a positive place where community association leaders can share and learn". It my mind that would refer to Board member and other volunteers who actually give of their time to serve the community. Seems some who come to this site recently missed that mission statement and think this is a site to whine about how the big bad HOA is abusing them and taking away their civil liberties. This is not a "I hate my HOA" site. And speaking for myself I resent when people come here and suggest each and every HOA is evil and serves no purpose.

I myself have served on our Board since 1987. I have held every possible position on our Board at one time or another. I am one of the few who does the work to keep this property afloat day to day. Now we have a 9 person Board but the vast majority over the years were what I refer to as "once a month" Board members. Holding the position but not really being involved. Since 2003 I have served as Board President. Since that time as a result of our efforts to use our assets wisely and in a cost effective manner we have seen accounts grow 12 fold. This during the worst economy most of us have ever seen. Now most of this good news is lost on the majority of owners because they have no REAL interest in the property until in affects them directly. Unlike many people who post here I don't hold out the fantasy that most owners do have an interest in their properties. Simply not the case.

Personally, I worked in the construction field for 33 years. I built things actually accomplishing something every day other than running my mouth. In my world talk IS cheap. One of the last projects I was on had a crew of 120 men and women that I oversaw. A weekly payroll of $250,000 the total cost of the project (first phase) $75 million. So making decisions, making judgments, using time wisely was NOT a problem. We could not afford to do so. I am familiar with all pahses of contruction. Roofing, electrical, plumbing, landscaping, tree work, carpentry etc. But more important I have dealt with contractors, estimates, bids, costs, contracts for 33 years. I understand what should be done and why.
I can judge a fair price from a quality contractor versus a thief who will never stand behind their work.

I live on our property but I also own multiple units here that I rent out. So I understand BOTH sides of the coin when it comes to living in an HOA.

Now onto the topic of advice. Seems many folks these days come to this site and "frame" out the information they provide to suit their own agenda. I for one will NOT provide support for these folks until such
time as they have provided a full and honest account of what is happening versus their need to gather
support and agreement with their personal purpose. If they are unwilling to give honest answers or need to leave out much of the pertinent information it suggests to me they have an "agenda" I will not work to support.

Then in some cases when you dare to disagree you are most certainly WRONG and they suddenly know more than anyone else. For me that becomes quite tiresome. Have you ever served on a Board? Are you now serving? Have you read the documents that serve to govern your property? Do you have ANY understanding of what they require? Can you find the applicable
state laws? Can you comprehend any of them? Or is it that your opinion is based on opinion, beliefs of what is right and wrong and how things SHOULD be? The world does not operate that way. Not the REAL world.

So folks like Mike the YO-YO from Mass. who claims all HOAs are evil and has worked for 10 years working through the courts to destry his HOA and take the homes of the Board members do I respect him? Hardly. He is a fool and I feel for the Board on his property who needs to deal with him day to day. Or Ralph, I hate to say this but he was from NY my home state. Ralph in his infinite wisdom quoted the sources for the governence of HOAs in NY as if they were fact. Truth is he was 100% wrong. But Ralph has the nerve to question how his Board operates.

I myself have no patience for fools or people who think they know when in fact they know little. I have no need for people who think others should do more and better when they themselves sit by and do nothing. I have no use for politicians or the people who think writing a book full of rules and guidlelines can subsitute for common sense and common interest. And IF you in fact know so much what then are you doing here?
Becuase if you knew the answers you would have no need to find support here.

Yes, some of us offer advice and ideas here. But as in life advice only has value when you choose to put it to use. When what you are seeking is a new set of rules just for you. Or perhaps special treatment because of your situation or circumstances that then becomes another area about how to get along in life that I choose not to advise people on.

Yes, when you call people on the Board "ignorant", "liars", "thieves",
"dishonest" and whatever else to push your agenda I do have a problem with that as I too serve on our Board. And in most cases while you all have sat back and done ZERO, ZIP, NOTHING.

I've had my fill of people like that.

Years ago we had a President whose one speech became quite well known.
I will make certain changes to suit this topic.

"So my fellow HOA owners ask not what your HOA can do for YOU, ask what
YOU can do for YOUR HOA."

What have you been doing to serve your community? What gives you the right to judge people who in most cases you don't even know? What gives you the right to score their actions when you have no idea what it is
they deal with day to day in managing YOUR property?

If you wish to whine and plead YOUR case then be prepared for the possibility some folks might not agree with you. This is a public forum after all. If you think everyone else should live to serve your needs and wishes while sacrificing their own grow up!

And to the folks that feel the NEED to voice their opinions about how the world should be NICE NICE and we should all just get along and see eye to eye I don't seek or require YOUR approval. In life some folks need to be told straight out and I don't have the NEED to filter what I say so we all get to live in LA-LA Land. Because that is a land of make believe. And if what I say offends you in any way then skip through what I post. I won't be offended at all.............

I have gotten some very good advise from this site. When I first came on the site, I mentioned that I was going to go the the law library at the courthouse to research NE condo laws. Someone gave me a link to the all the NE state laws. This has been extremely helpful. If we are doing something because of the law and someone complains we can site the statue.

I love this site.

As a Board member I have taken verbal abuse from only one owner who verbally abuses almost everyone even her own adult children.

In regards to the subject line of this thread: "How we give advice on here" I offer the following:

Advice/opinions are given based on the following:

1) What you provide in your posts - we don't have access to your governing documents and we don't know your issue or the background behind it. What may be "common knowledge" to you isn't common knowledge to us. Therefore, when we ask questions it's usually for clarification of the issue so the advice/opinion will be more appropriate.

2) Personal Experiences - This is the built in filter everyone sees the world in.

3) Personal knowledge - This ties into personal experiences but isn't exactly the same. For example, a person who is trained as a tax consultant or legal professional has personal knowledge others likely won't have but may or may not have experienced a specific situation that required them to use that knowledge. Personal knowledge isn't always formal education as it would include on-the-job training. All of us have come from different backgrounds and many, if not most, have served at some level to help run their Association. Therefore, this knowledge would be used as a basis for our opinions/advice.

4) Any Research done and the interpretation of that research - often members of this site will do some research prior to offering advice. Typically the research will involve looking at State Statutes (law), Federal regulations and/or other web sites.

5) Common Sense - Hopefully this is applied to all posts. Often an individual (be they seeking advice or offering advice) can become so passionate about an issue that they fail to use common sense that their might be another perspective to an issue or other options available.

NOTE: if any of the above changes, the opinions offered may change.

Little things like leaving out that the Developer is still in control of the Association or that you have already received three letters from the Association about your issue to larger things like failing to read the right Statute or misunderstanding a Statute could provide one opinion and once this info is known, a different opinion may be provided.

REMEMBER the final decision is yours. There are intended and unintended consequences to each decision. We don't have to deal with those consequences, you do. Therefore, the decision of which advice/opinion to follow (fully or partially) or which advice/opinion to ignore is yours to make.

For me, a good rule of thumb is to look at the majority of the answers and see if there is a common thread. If there is, the advice associated with that thread should probably be considered. Personally, if applicable, I prefer the advice/opinions that provide links to Statutes or other sites that show where some of the basis for that opinion came from, as this allows me to read those sites and see if I came to the same conclusion.

I also like the advice/opinion that disagrees with mine as it requires me to better support my opinion. This may change opinions or not. Sometimes it boils down to agreeing to disagree. However, the end result is often that I learned something new.

Hope this helps,

Tim

Like many of the websites I've since bookmarked, I came across this one while looking for something else. I was a first time homeowner and was prompted to pay more attention to what the Board did and why because my home inspector noted my roof didn't have all the vents the manufacturer called for (the number of vents that were there met the building code, so the developer went to the least common denominator).

I decided to volunteer my services to the board partly to ensure the issue came up, as my building wasn't the only one with the problem (I live in a townhouse community). At first, the most I did was attend meetings and that was it, although I did try to review the financial report and ask a question or two and I looked for some replacement playground equipment we eventually purchased.

But then our Board president resigned by email (the day following a Board meeting where we rejected a fee increase he proposed, fearing more people would become delinquent) That's when the rest of us realized we'd depending on him to do a lot of the Board's thinking and activity and went along with it because he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. For the most part he did, but after he left, we knew we had to start doing a lot of things ourselves instead of being the "monthly Board members" JonD spoke of.

Fast forward to 2013 - our delinquencies worsened anyway, partly because of the bad economny, but also because we found the Board wasn't as hard as it should have been on chronic late payers (and one homeowner who's lived here 16 years and has ALWAYS paid late or not at all) I looked as some of the practices suggested by various members of this board and now we're slowly beginning to move these chronic deadbeats out (a foreclosure on the 16 year person should be completed by the end of the year).

Our community does have its challenges, but when I look at the problems some of you have brought to this Board, it does keep things in prespective! I continue to get great advice or at least ideas on how to look at our problems from a different angle, and I think that's made me a better board member. I've passed along a lot of it to our board members, as some of the newer ones have morphed into the "monthly board member!"

And, I've nearly turned into our former Board president (minus some of his micro-managing because I just don't have the time or interest). I know another reason he left is becuase he grew tired of being the only member who actually went out and did certain things and I've already told my board that I'm done when my term is up. Once upon a time, I might have resigned myself to staying on because no one would step up, but many of you have helped me realize that all I can do is my best and act with intregity. Everyone else is an adult and is just as reponsible for their actions. It may be I have to leave before they see what they're really capable of and bring that to the forefront. In the end, I hope it makes them better board members.

As for all of you, thank you so much for all the help you've given me and HOA board members/residents who really do want to do the right thing, despite the delinquencies, mind-blowing apathy, chief complainers, state legislatures that are completely clueless as to how HOAs work and everything else. God bless us (and help us!) everyone

Thanks - Lord knows, I can use some!

Between you, Jon and MelissaP1, you two have a knack for callinmg a spade a spade - thanks for putting some of my thoughts into words (minus some of the "five dollar adjectives" I might throw in!! I also appreciate TimB4's remarks on the importance of reading one's governing documents to see what's what before going on half cocked

(not that this helps many people - it seems the best way to hide the truth is to simply put it in writing because too many people can't or refuse to crack open a book!)

Honesty is the trait I admire most in people and although i'm far from perfect, I believe in saying what I mean and meaning what I say. As I've gotten older, I've learned (a little!) to count to ten before blurting out something everyone will regret, but I don't believe in mincing words either. For the most part, I'm lucky that the homeowners who have heard me respect me for saying whatever, even if they don't always agree. And that's ok.

And sadly, it's true that there are way too many homeowners who don't give a hoot - we've been trying to close our pool for over a year and need a homeowner vote, and STILL cannot get the required majority either way. There's so much apathy around here, I can almost bet that the Board could easily shut down the thing for good next month and very few people would object (our former board president may squawk over not following that portion of the CCRs, but even he'd shrug it off because we finally did what previous boards should have done years ago, but didn't have the...kahunas)

That said, I'm fortunate that most of the current board members try to act with some sort of principles, and since state law changed a year ago to allow the state AG to go after boards who commit criminal acts and/or grossly neglect their fidicuary duties, we're not inclined to buck the CCRs because none of us can afford to be sued!

I understand your statements above. I am not sure where or how to start this inquiry so I figured I start with you and your comments above. I don't expect legal assistance but would like some advice from others who have experianced a similar situation.

I am a member of a condo association in Pennsylvania. A group of homeowner and I have been concerned with actions of the long-time members of the board's ability to control elections and to maintain their positions. This spurred serious concern of all their activities. Why would anyone go through so much trouble to maintain their non-paying positions on the council. We were informed that they made a change to our by-laws so they only needed 15% vote to approve and all condo by-laws and regulations. These members have taken the condo association out of the first position of "the right to refusal" not to purchase any condo coming up for sale. Three of the members have purchased several units. What makes matters worse is that the superintendent is one of the long-term member of the board and therefore approves his own actions and salary. Needless to say, that has change dramatically over the past few years.

After repeated inquiries to obtain financial information, the superintendent's job description and the responsibility of the member of the board, our group got together to pursue this in numbers. Through continuous action, we were able to put one from our group on the board. We thought we had two positions from our election but we found out afterwards, a member who was part of our group was discovered to be a close friend of the longest held council member's.

The position our colleague was approved for was the Treasurer position. He'd been on the board for several months trying diligently to take over his responsibilities as treasurer to no avail. We are now documenting all activities and requesting all information in writing of which he has yet to obtain. The other board members have threatened to have him removed from his position if he pursue this useless interest.

Through aggressive interrogations and some forensic work we have uncovered unscrupulous check writing and lies to reason for the unapproved spending on personal accounts to the tune of over $40,000.00. We feel very confident if we could get the information we need, we will uncover much more.

Their mussel and their ability to refuse the information has made it quite difficult to uncover more.

Obviously there is much more that I could elaborate on but I'm sure you understand my concerns.

Do you know how we can proceed to remove them immediately and then to bring their actions to justice?

Can you give me some direction?

Robin, you'll get more responses if you start a new topic with a specific question in your subject line.

If I were you, I'd also try to to make your question much shorter. Some very helpful folks here simply will not wade through so much verbiage.

Sorry, felt I had to give some background so people could understand the situation instead of having to answer a whole string of questions. Also, I can't change the subject line since it is already set. I tried but it won't let me change it. Please advise.

I so appreciate the help I am getting, Like a tether verses a leash. I had no idea there was a difference, so thanks! We do not get a newsletter from the association so I only know when I am doing something wrong when I get a letter of complaint. The one letter I did receive said what day will be lawn care day, which doesn't hold true, they come whenever!
I am disabled and came to a condo thinking how much easier it would be for me but that int the case. The association rules your every day living and I had no idea I would be watched day in and day out!

I may be doing this wrong as I am not the most computer literate
but my question is: Can home owners vote to dissolve an association all together?

Articles in our Cert of incorporation that says:

Article 5:
Membership -
The Corporation shall be a membership Corporation without certificates or shares of stock.
All unit owners by virtue of their ownership of units in the single family subdivision
are members of the Association. The members shall be entitled to one (1) vote for each unit in which they hold the interest required for membership, in accordance with Declaration.

Article 8:
Dissolution:
The Association may be dissolved upon the affirmative vote or written consent of not less than two-thirds (2/3) of the votes of members other than the Declarant (as such term is defined in the declaration, the consent of the Declarant (so long as the Declarant owns any property subject to the Declaration or which may be unilaterally subjected to the Declaration by the Declarant). Upon dissolution of the Association, other than incident to a merger or consolidation, so long as the VA is guaranteeing and/or HUD is insuring any mortgage in the development, and unless otherwise agreed in writing by HUD OR VA, as applicable, any remaining real property assets of the Association shall be dedicated to an appropriate public agency to be used for purposes similar to those for which this Association was created. In the event that such dedication is refused acceptance, such assets shall be granted, conveyed and assigned to any non profit corporation, association, trust or other organization to be devoted to such similar. No such restriction shall exist if VA is not guaranteeing or HUD is not insuring any mortgage in the development; provided, however, HUD and/or VA must be notified of such dissolution.

END OF ARTICLES

Does this mean we can vote to dissolve our Association?

Thank you for having this discussion space. I feel like I'm in therapy. Wish I would have found it a year ago! Thanks for answering all my questions, which you can tell have been on my mind for some time.