Witch Hunting for documents

This may be my little "vent" but want to address many posters on here who post "I want/demand to see my HOA's records". YES it is your right to see those documents and you should. No argument there. Here's the issue with it on why you may be denied those records.

#1. They do NOT exist!!! Surprise! The records in your mind and the records that do exist may NOT match! You may want a record that no one keeps or has ever taken up the responsibility to keep. It is ALL volunteer in a member run HOA. Record keeping falls on who ever wants to undertake it or is required to by the HOA documents. There may NOT be a record of all the members or their contact information held by the HOA. If there is one, it may be incomplete. Plus not everyone would like their information outside of the public HOA address to be known. I sure don't want everyone to have access to my email address and would not like my HOA to be giving it out. So don't take those "Missing records" as a sign of "hiding" something. Quite frankly it is most likely no one volunteered to do the work.

#2. Collection reports. No it is NOT for you to shame or embarrass someone who has not paid their assessments/dues. Your responsibility is to make sure your BOARD takes action in collecting. We had a 6 month policy of unpaid dues without payment arrangements, we would automatically liened. No willy nilly lien when we want to or make it feel "selective". However, for those HOA's who are disorganized so will the filing of liens occur at different time periods for different reasons. It's just the way it works if your board is new or things are unclear.

The HOA should provide you with basic statistics such as: 96% of the residents are paying on time routinely. We currently have 3 liens out on non-payers. They should also reveal to you on what amount YOU owe them but NOT your neighbors. That in my opininon is just being nosy and leading up to a "Witch Hunt".

#3. HOA board members are NOT professionals. The ONLY real requirement for a member run HOA board is the person be a homeowner. That is it. There are no resumes, business degress, past experience, or any other requirement. So your issues with your board or board member can just be personal and not professional. They have lives too outside of being a board member. Deal with it.

#4. Have a REAL purpose. For crying out loud state your point! Don't hide behind looking up "State Statutes" or "HOA rules". Just state what your problem is and what it would take for you to have a solution. Going on about "Board member/PM violates statute xx.xx.00 of the state code" is just dazzling BS to the non-professional. State your point and assert your rights to organize a recall. Stop with the digging up dirt to toss in the face. Alot of times dust blows back on yours and your hands are covered in it. Learn to just address what you want as a neighbor and fellow member not try to play "Internet lawyer".

#5. There are NO "HOA Police". Yes, a member can be violating every law in your HOA documents or even the state laws/codes. Big shocker there. However, what actual punishment are they going to get for doing so? If your documents lack a defined punishment, then that is all of yours faults for not addressing your documenation. It has to be agreed by the majority of homeowners to either vote someone out for violating rules or to change the rules to allow fines to be levied for the specific rule/violation they broke. That is the punishment your HOA can do. It isn't like you can call the police and report a "HOA crime". It falls under "white collar" crimes or if they stole money then that is prosecutable. However, just because one doesn't let you see a record is not cause for jail time or some great punishment. Just vote the person out of office.

To end this with my sage old advice: "Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors". So enjoy your witch hunting when you should be concentrating on what your problem is and how to solve it. Not keep diving into the cauldron to pull more "Eye of Newt" out of the kettle...

There I've done my venting! Enjoy tearing me apart now!

Remember most court rulings are public information once it is settled. The current board members are dealing with the decision or aftermath that the case itself does not matter. We had a lawsuit after the turnover waaaay before my time. The President at the time signed a 40 K lawncare contract but gave the job to someone else. That is all the information I ever had on the case. So just made sure I did our contracts correctly. That is all I could do is to make sure I did things right. Can not go back to the past to dig things up once settled.

Why do you characterize every request to view documents as a witch hunt? Sometimes that is the only way to get information from the BOD.

My HOA does not allow members to attend meetings except for the annual meeting and I am ingnored when I ask questions. How do you suggest members get information except through the documentation?

Gee did someone cast their spell in my direction? LOL!!!

I agree with the "not all document requests or witch hunts" message.

When the HOA I dealt with told me I had to pay a mandatory assessment despite not being a member I asked a simple question: what were the votes to approve such a thing. They told me they could, they wouldn't do my research for me, and that their lawyer would take us to court. I attended a meeting to find out more information and the president actually had a gavel and when a homeowner tried to ask a question he refused to recognize her and then when she spoke he would bang his gavel. Then the board ceased communication with me and told me if I wanted any more information to get a lawyer and they refused to let me into any meetings. They went as far as to hold their meetings in a neighboring gated community's club house, a realtor's office, and a hotel conference room. They even hired an off-duty police officer to prevent some homeowners from attending. When I came to this site asking questions I was helped by many individuals but there was this assumption that I misread my documents and was unhappy with the answers I received.

Sure there are some people who have it out for a board or person and will request information for no reason other then to find improprieties but I also am of the mindset that even if that is what they want to do then fine - if the Board has nothing to hide then they would disclose the necessary information (information that can be disclosed, of course). That is the role they signed up for. It doesn't make a difference if you are some crazy whack-o who wants to read decades of meeting minutes or a homeowner who is seriously interested in straightening out their neighborhood.

I agree!

I mean records. I requested by e-mail to all board members copies of the last 2 board meeting minutes over 2 weeks ago and not one board member has responded. The CC&R's expired. The board wants to reinstate them but in Iowa they must get approval from 100% of the property owners. I want information about where they are with this process. They won't answer my questions so I requested the board minutes. I have researched the Iowa Nonprofit Corporation code. Without looking it up again, I believe they have 10 working days to provide the information. But what is my option if they don't comply? The code also states the request must be for a proper purpose. That certainly is open to interpretation.

Sharon a real catch 22, the HOA doesn't exist anymore (according to you) yet you can't understand why they are not following the CC&Rs. If you are no longer a member of the corporation that administered the HOA, remember the documents requiring you to be a member have expired, if they do not respond are they truly breaking the law?

I do take on exception to your post about e-mail, just because e-mail transmission is instantaneous, doesn't mean the response is. For that matter if you are as big a PITA as your posts in the past have indicated, then if I were on your Board, I would simply block your e-mails.

Yes I know a PITA to one person is simply someone fighting for their rights to another. Besides I don't believe the common reports, minutes & financials are what Melissa is referring to by "witch hunt". I believe she is referring to things like wanting to see the receipt for hardware purchased in June of 1999. These things, if they are kept, are filed away who knows where and it takes time and effort to try and find them. Annoying at best if your HOA is self managed and you have to give up a weekend to try and dig through the old records to find it. Expensive if you have a MC and have to pay for their time to dig through the old records for a receipt for two screws bought a decade ago.

Well in most cases the Board meets one time each month. But we have a poster here who e-mailed the entire Board and 2 weeks later seems upset not to have heard back.
Now you do the math. Perhaps the Board members have jobs. Perhaps the B oard members themselves don't have the capacity or ability to provide the records. Perhaps they have bigger fish to fry right now. Perhaps you are just a PIA. So the volunteer Board is supposed to be immediate in their response but the same poster can't be bothered to verify the Board has a limited time to respond under the law.

Yes, if you have a property 30 years old can you demand to see all the records? And how often? My guess not many people left to explain what took place then or where the records are IF they exist.

In many cases nothing more than an attempt to Monday morning quarterback the decisions made by the Board when the important question remains unanswered.

"Other than their record keeping abilities what kind of job is the Board doing managing YOUR property?"

Certainly they could never have any more pressing issues than satisfying your demand for records so you can find fault and second guess the decisions made while you sat back and did nothing. Yes that sounds about right!

I never said they were breaking the law or that I pestered them for documents. The board meets quarterly. The last meeting was in December. The secretary is retired. I never said they were not following the CC&R's. It's widely known in the subdivision that the CC&R's expired. That is why the plan is to try to reinstate them or start over with a new one. They are a nonprofit corporation because there are still common areas to maintain and services that are provided. Reinstating the CC&R's is a critical element where I live and as a homeowner I want to know what is going on with that process. I have volunteered my services by offering to chair a committee but the Board hasn't taken me up on my offer. So my original question was how can I get them to comply with the request for the last 2 board meeting minutes. If they don't respond, I'm not going to make a federal case out of it. I am still "on the fence" whether I want the CC&R's reinstated. The Board has communicated in the past that this is what they wish to do but it only takes one negative vote to prevent that.

They do have an obligation to the members of the nonprofit corporation by the Revised Nonprofit Code of Iowa. It is the only oversight this association has. I am not on any witch hunt or being a PITA. Do you think its possible that a few of the board members are the ones being the PITAs? Some time ago I requested that the board send me an updated list of board members and the positions they hold as I had heard that some board members had resigned. I don't think that is an unusual or difficult request. So IMO some of the board members are the ones being the PITAs.