delinquent HO voting rights

Started by HeatherB3 • 10 replies • 1849 views

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HeatherB3 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Hi all,

In Florida, the statue states that a HOA can send a delinquent HO (after 90 days delinquent) a letter explaining that their voting rights have been suspended due to unpaid assessments. Our docs basically say the same thing. The statue and our docs indicate that if the proper procedure is met, this act would lower the voting interest.

The main reason this has been brought up is because we, the BOD, is looking at changing our docs in the near future and this procedure would lower the amount needed to get these things passed if enough votes are obtained for the change to through. Wishful thinking but... a side affect to this, If we choose to move forward, it might propel delinquent HO to pay up (again, wishful thinking). Our Attorney is being contacted for the wording of the letter and the correct procedure, so we don't do anything wrong on the our side.

A member of the BOD, which BTW, I respect his opinion but disagree with, thinks this idea is bad because it promotes a hostile community and he also thinks that a HO, even though they are behind in dues, should still have a say in what happens. He continued by saying that because a HO is behind today, they might not be tomorrow and should still be given that right to vote.

I, however, disagree. The HOs that are delinquent will be given at least 14 days to pay-up (per FL statue)or longer if we choose to extend that time, but they will get at least 14 days and to be frank, I think, if you don't pay your dues you really have no say as to what goes on in the community. I also think, if a HO really cared about being able to vote and making his/her "voice" be heard they would have a)not become delinquent and/or b) pay-up so that their "voice" can be heard.

Alright... my point and my question... Does your community practice this? If so, does it make a hostile community? Thoughts? Ideas? GO!!!

H

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here is the deal with this to help your discenting board member. A person who is behind in dues and lost their right to vote has NOT lost their ability to run for the board. So they still have an option of having their opinion heard despite being denied the ability to vote. However, how many people are actually going to vote for someone who is behind or refusing to pay their dues? I like the the idea of removing the right to vote from non-payers just as a form of punitive measures to get the message across to pay up in a non-aggressive way.

I had a policy that instated that helped in our collecting of backdues even though our documents did not have the removal of voting rights in it. If an owner was 6 months behind in dues, we would file a lien if they had not made payment arrangements. Most documents give the power for a HOA to place a lien but no time line to follow when to do it. So it's done very erratically and makes some feel like it is "selective enforcement". Making a solid deadline seemed to help get people aware of the HOA existance, make payment arrangements, or weeded out those who refused/would not pay. After a year we would start considering the foreclosure process but it depended on the situation. A HOA never wants to foreclose on a house already in bank foreclosure process. A year or more of non-payment usually weeds those out as well.

When you change your documents I would suggest a few other changes. References to technology. Will you all allow certain types of "Green energy" measures? Remove any old satellite dish references. If you are no longer developer controlled remove all references including not being a member of the HOA and their old voting system from your docs. You may want to change the amount of votes it takes to make changes to the documents from the membership and the number of board members if there is alot of apathy. Prepare a bit for the future apathy of your HOA.

Good luck! It took us over 2 years and about 3K to change our documents. It's not easy but get it all done that you can so you don't have to do this again for another 5 -7 years.

Former HOA President

HeatherB3 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/28/2013 4:52 AM
Here is the deal with this to help your discenting board member. A person who is behind in dues and lost their right to vote has NOT lost their ability to run for the board. So they still have an option of having their opinion heard despite being denied the ability to vote. However, how many people are actually going to vote for someone who is behind or refusing to pay their dues? I like the the idea of removing the right to vote from non-payers just as a form of punitive measures to get the message across to pay up in a non-aggressive way.

The good thing about living in Florida. Florida statues include a new law that prohibits HO 90 days past due on ANY monetary obligation to either be removed from BOD or not allowed to run.

Quote:

I had a policy that instated that helped in our collecting of backdues even though our documents did not have the removal of voting rights in it. If an owner was 6 months behind in dues, we would file a lien if they had not made payment arrangements. Most documents give the power for a HOA to place a lien but no time line to follow when to do it. So it's done very erratically and makes some feel like it is "selective enforcement". Making a solid deadline seemed to help get people aware of the HOA existance, make payment arrangements, or weeded out those who refused/would not pay. After a year we would start considering the foreclosure process but it depended on the situation. A HOA never wants to foreclose on a house already in bank foreclosure process. A year or more of non-payment usually weeds those out as well.

Another good thing about living in Florida... strong HOA laws. We seem to be on the same timeline with our collections.

Quote:

When you change your documents I would suggest a few other changes. References to technology. Will you all allow certain types of "Green energy" measures? Remove any old satellite dish references. If you are no longer developer controlled remove all references including not being a member of the HOA and their old voting system from your docs. You may want to change the amount of votes it takes to make changes to the documents from the membership and the number of board members if there is alot of apathy. Prepare a bit for the future apathy of your HOA.

Thank you and yes, we are looking to the majority of those things you have suggested.

Good luck! It took us over 2 years and about 3K to change our documents. It's not easy but get it all done that you can so you don't have to do this again for another 5 -7 years.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Our Bylaws and CCRs (also in need of updating) state that a delinquent homeowner loses the right to vote in board elections or sit on the board, nor is he or she allowed to use community amenities, such as the clubhouse - but I think the changes your board is considering is a great idea.

In my opinion, if you're not paying fees/assessments, you shouldn't have a right to vote on ANYTHING regarding Association issues because some (most?) of those issues involve money. If you're not paying your fair share, why should you have a say, as the rest of the Association will have to pay more to subsidize those who don't? I agree with you that if homeowners care about their right to vote, they'll pay up so their voice will at least have some sort of credibility. If the homeowner becomes current tomorrow, as the other board member suggests, he or she can then vote on whatever issues are pending at THAT time.

I don't think it'll create a hostile community - I think most homeowners will appreciate that the non-payers aren't being allowed to influence spending decisions. As far as the non-payers go, they'll likely be split into two camps - the ones who will concentrate on becoming current (which is what you want) and the others who are probably losing their home anyway because of foreclosure and so don't give a damn what happens to the community because they won't be around to see it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

EmilyB2 (Arizona)
Posts: 40

Posted:

I would agree with you as well. In our case, the majority of delinquents are in foreclosure, so there is no one to vote anyway which makes it difficult to gain enough votes for your needs. Sending this letter will take those homes out of the equation. I may use this suggestion to my own board. Thanks for the idea.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/28/2013 8:16 AM
Our Bylaws and CCRs (also in need of updating) state that a delinquent homeowner loses the right to vote in board elections or sit on the board, nor is he or she allowed to use community amenities, such as the clubhouse - but I think the changes your board is considering is a great idea.

In my opinion, if you're not paying fees/assessments, you shouldn't have a right to vote on ANYTHING regarding Association issues because some (most?) of those issues involve money. If you're not paying your fair share, why should you have a say, as the rest of the Association will have to pay more to subsidize those who don't? I agree with you that if homeowners care about their right to vote, they'll pay up so their voice will at least have some sort of credibility. If the homeowner becomes current tomorrow, as the other board member suggests, he or she can then vote on whatever issues are pending at THAT time.

I don't think it'll create a hostile community - I think most homeowners will appreciate that the non-payers aren't being allowed to influence spending decisions. As far as the non-payers go, they'll likely be split into two camps - the ones who will concentrate on becoming current (which is what you want) and the others who are probably losing their home anyway because of foreclosure and so don't give a damn what happens to the community because they won't be around to see it.

Well said.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Delinquent owners aren't allowed to vote in our HOA and there's no hostility about that topic.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Just remember that x% of the voting interest means something different than x% of the membership

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 03/29/2013 4:43 PM
Just remember that x% of the voting interest means something different than x% of the membership

Now that I have a little more time, let me explain this better.

Typically the language used for amending the CC&Rs require a certain percentage of member approval not a certain percent of votes. Minimizing the voting interest may actually prohibit your proposed changes from being approved.

Examples:

100 Lots, 1 vote per lot. 12 are delinquent and not allowed to vote.
79 votes cast.

Language used = votes required to pass

Majority of votes cast = 40 yea votes needed (79 divided by 2 rounded up to make majority)
Majority of available votes/voting interest = 45 yea votes needed (100 minus 12, divided by 2 plus 1 to make majority)
Majority of membership = 51 yea votes needed (100 divided by 2 plus 1 to make majority)

Lesson learned, read your documents carefully for what is required to adopt changes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I am going to repeat what Tim said:

100 Lots, 1 vote per lot. 12 are delinquent and not allowed to vote.
79 votes cast.

Language used = votes required to pass

Majority of votes cast = 40 yea votes needed (79 divided by 2 rounded up to make majority)

Majority of available votes/voting interest = 45 yea votes needed (100 minus 12, divided by 2 plus 1 to make majority)

Majority of membership = 51 yea votes needed (100 divided by 2 plus 1 to make majority)

What he said is critical. Reread it, draw it out. A simple word can make for drastic differences.

Hope I did not screw up on the bold/italic.

Thanks Tim

MichelleM3 (Florida)
Posts: 7

Posted:

I don't believe you have to amend your docs to match the Florida Statute. The statute in this case supercedes you document.

As far as the board member that disagrees, all due respect to his opinion, he has a fudiciary respnsibility to uphold the law. In this case his opinion holds no value.

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