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MikeW13 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I'm in Fl. When may the HOA BODs have - well - a "working" meeting with only BODs in attendance? We have ongoing legal issues with a homeowner. If we want to discuss such issues with only the BODs in attendance - may we do so? Or do we have to have a lawyer present in order for just the BOD to meet together?

Any other real world exceptions to permit the BODs to meet by themselves?

On the other side of the coin, with respect to transparency - when does a BODs gathering together become non-transparent? For example - one board member walks over to the home of another board member and they discuss an issue associated with the HOA. Are they "meeting" - and is this considered to be non-transparent? Take it one step further, the two board members walk over to the home of a third BOD! Is that prohibited? Or - there is email correspondence on an issue - but just within the BODs. Is that considered "meeting" together? Or should HOA issues be discussed only within officially called meetings along with homeowners? I know it sounds silly - but I'm looking for some guidance.

thanks
mikew13

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You should have 1 person on your board talking to the lawyer. The HOA lawyer is not open to everybody. Preferably it should be the president. Although a board member with legal knowledge could do it if agreed by the board.

Having 1 point of contact will save money and protect information. When someone sues their HOA they are suing themselves and all their neighbors. However, the HOA members have a right to know the HOA board is handling it. So I would not give details but in the open meetings discuss the issue is being addressed. The updates will be given when appropriate. Otherwise they could be called in as witnesses if they want more details. That should hold off the nosy.

Former HOA President
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Under FL law anytime a quorum of BOD members meet to discuss HOA business the meeting must be properly noticed and is open to all members.

You cannot prevent the adhoc, house-to-house, type meeting you describe but you could make the law known and thus question the BODs need to conduct business this way.

There is a meeeting type called 'executive session'or similar. This is typically noticed (for transparency) but not open to non-BOD members. It may be a separate meeting or coincide with a BOD meeting either before, during, or after with proper adjournment.

This would be for discussing such cases of pending or on-going litigation and for personnel issues with employees (inc. Mgmt Co.) or BOD censure.

ALL meeting minutes (inc. Exec. session) must be kept, added to the official records, and would be available for member review at the appropriate time(s).

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
One more thing... a lawyer need not be present to convene an Exec. session.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I like your clear explanation, Peter. In CA, though, the executive session minutes would never be released to the general membership without the Board approving such a release.

What's unclear to me is whether MikeW is the "we" taking legal action against the homeowner or if it's the Board?

Anyway, discussion about pending legal action must be held in executive session. The reason is to maintain confidentiality re: the Board's case. It also may be needed to protect the privacy of the homeowner. I'd think the attorney should be present. Or are the board members just going to speculate?? In other words, just spin their wheels? Are you on the Board, MikeW?
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Cool.

Once the matter(s) are settled we have full access. There's a littany of reasons for this.
MikeW13 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 03/18/2013 3:06 PM
I like your clear explanation, Peter. In CA, though, the executive session minutes would never be released to the general membership without the Board approving such a release.

What's unclear to me is whether MikeW is the "we" taking legal action against the homeowner or if it's the Board?

Anyway, discussion about pending legal action must be held in executive session. The reason is to maintain confidentiality re: the Board's case. It also may be needed to protect the privacy of the homeowner. I'd think the attorney should be present. Or are the board members just going to speculate?? In other words, just spin their wheels? Are you on the Board, MikeW?

Yes - I'm on the board.
Thanks for the feedback. Executive session would meet our needs - and is what I'm looking for. Thanks.

MikeW13
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Typically the Board would Start the meeting in open session, recess to executive session, return to open session and then close the meeting. The open meeting minutes would be something like:

Board meeting was held on mm/dd/yyyy @ hh:mm with the following Board members in attendance which satisfied quorum requirements:

The minutes of mm/dd/yyyy were approved.

Motion was made to go into executive session to discuss pending legal matters.
Motion was seconded by [name] and passed unanimously.

Meeting was recessed to executive session at hh:mm
Meeting was reconviened from executive session at hh:mm

[any other motions as a result of executive session]

The next board meeting will be held on mm/dd/yyyy

Meeting was adjourned at hh:mm
MikeW13 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/19/2013 3:16 AM
Typically the Board would Start the meeting in open session, recess to executive session, return to open session and then close the meeting. The open meeting minutes would be something like:

Board meeting was held on mm/dd/yyyy @ hh:mm with the following Board members in attendance which satisfied quorum requirements:

The minutes of mm/dd/yyyy were approved.

Motion was made to go into executive session to discuss pending legal matters.
Motion was seconded by [name] and passed unanimously.

Meeting was recessed to executive session at hh:mm
Meeting was reconviened from executive session at hh:mm

[any other motions as a result of executive session]

The next board meeting will be held on mm/dd/yyyy

Meeting was adjourned at hh:mm

TimB4 - so - the minutes would capture the logistics of entering/exiting the executive session along with any motions. I presume these minutes are available for all homeowners to see within a reasonable time after the session? What if there is a motion passed that we want to keep privy until the legal issues are resolved? Can we restrict access to those minutes until such time that the matters are resolved?

MikeW13
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Minutes of the open meeting would be available to all members (just as all open meeting minutes are).

Minutes of the executive session are maintained and only available to Directors. Court orders would be needed to release them to anyone else.

Motions are decisions of the Board.
Agreements can be made in Executive session but decisions should be mentioned in the open session. Example:

otion was made to go into executive session to discuss pending legal matters.
Motion was seconded by [name] and passed unanimously.
Meeting was recessed to executive session at hh:mm
Meeting was reconviened from executive session at hh:mm

Motion was made, seconded and passed by x yea to x nay, to have the President contact the attorney concerning question brought up in executive session (this documents that it was a board decision to contact the attorney but doesn't reveal what the question was).

Motion was made, seconded and passed by x yea to x nay, that the President enters into discussions with member and bring the issue to resolution (this documents that the Board voted to have the President bring the issue to resolution - it is implied that the President would be using options discussed in executive session).

Motion was made, seconded and passed by x yea to x nay, to continue follow the advice of the attorney in the matter of abc. (this documents that the boards decision is based on a legal opinion, which may provide protection to the board if the advice is bad, and that the board desires to follow that advice).

Motion was made, seconded and passed by x yea to x nay, to drop the legal action against abc.

Motion was made, seconded and passed by x yea to x nay, to escalate collection methods and authorize the Treasurer to contact the attorney concerning account that is x days behind.

As you can see, the wording of the motion can be made without giving away what was discussed in executive session but still documents a boards vote and actions.

Hope this helps,

Tim
MikeW13 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Okay - that approach makes sense.
Can you provide some added clarity on how these executive sessions are scheduled and advertised to homeowners? Your description of the process could be in the sense that it is performed at the end of a regularly scheduled business meeting open to all homeowners. I assume all the homeowners in attendance would have to leave when the BODs goes into the executive session. Does the executive session have to be advertised 14 days in advance if it is at the end of a regular business meeting?

I assume if we have a special stand alone executive session - we have to notify homeowners 14 days in advance (or some normative time frame)?

thanks
MikeW13
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Mike notification to members of executive session in CA is 2 days, you'll need to look up what it is in FL.

In CA, we are permitted by Civil Code to hold executive session before, after or on a different day than the regularly scheduled monthly (in our case) open meeting of the board. But you need to follow FL codes on that. Our Board does not adjourn to ES from our open meeting as, indeed, we'd have to kick homeowners out of the meeting room. Some would undoubtedly not wait around to return & we, as a board, do appreciate their comments, etc.

Tim wrote that: "Motions are decisions of the Board," but I think he may have meant something different than that-- perhaps "approved motions," something like that?
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeW13 on 03/19/2013 11:25 AM
Okay - that approach makes sense.
Can you provide some added clarity on how these executive sessions are scheduled and advertised to homeowners? Your description of the process could be in the sense that it is performed at the end of a regularly scheduled business meeting open to all homeowners. I assume all the homeowners in attendance would have to leave when the BODs goes into the executive session. Does the executive session have to be advertised 14 days in advance if it is at the end of a regular business meeting?

I assume if we have a special stand alone executive session - we have to notify homeowners 14 days in advance (or some normative time frame)?

thanks
MikeW13

Florida meeting guidelines:
(note the last entry)

http://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2010/08/articles/operations/condohoa-meeting-agendas-notice-requirements/
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
So, Mike, based on the site that Peter provided, it looks like you need 48 hrs. notice for a session where the attorney is present. But I don't see anything specific to executive session notice requirements. I remember months ago on this forum that someone wrote that attorneys must be present at all executive sessions but I can't recall the reliability of the source.

I also see that 14 days notice applies to meetings of the member (homeowners), but not meetings of the board though there are exceptions. I urge you and your fellow directors to become more familiar with FL laws.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Drat! "meetings of memberS," not "member,"

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