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Owner Delinquent- owns multiple lots, should we file 1 small claims case or 1 per lot?

Started by HeatherC615 replies • 1611 views

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HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Our HOA has an owner who owns 3 homes, 1 of them with another person, we have been forced to file small claims each year in order to get them to pay their assessments. They are 3 months past due and we will be filing cases on April 1st.

In the past the Association has filed only 1 case, with both owners listed on the case ( the 2nd owner is only on 1 of the titles and is married to the owner on the other 2 homes). My question is this:

If technically the 2nd owner is only liable on 1 of the homes- that owner should not be listed on the cases for the other 2 homes correct?

And if the association should need to file a lien after receiving a judgement, would we need to have a separate judgement on each property or is it okay to file 1 case for the remaining 2 homes?

Thank you all for your help.

We are a single family development in Washington state.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You should skip the lawsuit altogether and just lien. Your wasting additional monies in doing so. The end result will be a lien anyways. The one house with the additional owner should be named on the lien for that home. However, if they are under an "LLC" you may have issues there. It's harder to get money from an LLC. You have to file it against the LLC most likely.

I don't know why your lawyer isn't telling you to place a lien straight out instead. Are you trying to attach some kind of fines? Fines may or may not be able to lien against. Check with your state on this. Otherwise on the lien the back dues, late fees, interest, and the legal costs of filing are part of the lien. It is also best to have a policy set up to decide when to lien. We had 6 months of non-payment we would lien. If you don't have that in place and you go to court that could be an issue. It's best to have a deadline in place before taking action.

Former HOA President
HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Melissa, thanks, it isn't an LLC and we haven't ever fined anyone in our HOA( only 3 years old) so it is only their assessment and late fees at this point. We don't have a lawyer and have in the past just filed small claims. So it is best to just file a lien on their home? Our documents state that Dues are a Personal obligations and Liens on assessed lots, our assumption was it was better to go to small claims( 100% of our cases have been paid in full after judgement) then to file a lien, but perhaps we are incorrect?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is natural that people think that lawsuits are the way to go. They are NOT the best option. A lawsuit judgement and a Lien are BOTH courth JUDGEMENTS. However, with a lawsuit judgement the owner can simply not pay the judgement and sell their home. Good luck in tracking them down to get them to pay the judgement as it may need renewed at 7 years. Since you change board members every year in most HOA's who is going to remember to track down or renew that judgement?

A lien had more teeth and costs less money. They may or may not need a lawyer to file. It depends on your state. Some states they are free to file while others require a lawyer and a filing fee. You have to check with your courthouse to see the process. A lien has more teeth as it stays with the home and the house can NOT be sold until it is paid off. It also accumulates over time. A lawsuit usually have to stop at the month your filing for the amount while the debt is still occurring by the time it is settled. So the HOA can miss out on some unpaid assessments during the process.

It's best to file a lien straight out overall. A lawsuit gets you the same result but with less ability to collect in some cases.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Heather

If what you have done in the past has gotten them to pay, then why do it different?

Thanks
HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
John, In the past this owner has agreed to a payment plan as soon as we filed small claims, this year we tried to get them to agree to a payment plan, so we could avoid even filing, and they refused, so we are concerned that we may have to file a lien, in which case we wanted to ensure we are doing things correctly( and since we have never filed a lien we don't know how it works). I thought that the HOA had to get a judgement against the HO in order to file a lien, but from what Melissa is saying that must be incorrect, I will have to go do some research for our states/counties laws.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
As long as your documents allow you to lien or foreclose, you can do that without getting a prior judgement. Liens are much cheaper but can take a long time to ever see money. However, with lawsuits you are never guranteed the money either. A lawsuit does not equal cash in hand. It equals a judgement against the person. IF they continue not to pay after the judgement you will have to do it all over again.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Heather,

Good questions. However they are legal questions and you probably should contact an attorney to file the lien (at least the first one). Depending on your governing documents and State laws, you might also be able to apply the legal charges as costs of collection to the lien.

Tim
HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Tim, Thanks You. That may be the way we head, I just thought I would solicit free advice from this group first and see what you all thought Too bad people don't just pay what they are responsible for and make our volunteer jobs a little easier!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HeatherC6 on 03/11/2013 10:11 AM

Too bad people don't just pay what they are responsible for and make our volunteer jobs a little easier!

Amen !

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
our assumption was it was better to go to small claims( 100% of our cases have been paid in full after judgement) then to file a lien, but perhaps we are incorrect?


Not much of an incentive to pay. If he looses he pays his dues that he already owes? LOL.

You need to hire a lawyer to file a lien. Add the cost of the lawyer, into the lien. Lets say it costs $500. Now he owes dues and $500. Now THAT is an incentive to pay. If he doesn't pay the lien in 2 pay periods bring it to small claims and win the dues plus liens.
HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
In defense of the Board- when you file small claims there are filing fees and process service fees, as well as charges from our Management company for going to the court, so they didn't just pay their dues.

I understand now that a Lien is a better option for getting payment, as the small claims judgements don't guarantee you will get paid. I have called our county court house and am waiting on information on how to proceed. Thanks to everyone for your input.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I understand now that a Lien is a better option for getting payment, as the small claims judgements don't guarantee you will get paid. I have called our county court house and am waiting on information on how to proceed.


You really shouldn't do this yourself. At least the first one. Too many things that could go wrong.
HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thanks, I don't intend to, I am just seeking information about time frames, and steps we will need to take, so that I can present it to our Board in order to make an informed decsion, then we can consult an attorney.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Wait on the need a lawyer. It can/will vary from state to state. In SC if one does not pay off a small claims (we call it Magistrates Court) settlement within the court specified time or does not show up in court, the court will issue a default warrant the other party in the small claim can then take that default warrant and file a lien themselves at the County of Deed Registrars Office.

Such is done all time here without using a lawyer. Someone on the BOD just has to be willing to do the work including the small claims filing, small claims court appearence, register the lien which would be in the HOA's name.

My HOA does it a bit different:

We have tried several ways to collect back dues in that we talk to people, try and arrange payment plans, waive late fees ,etc. but it often gets to a point where they ignore us or do not honor their promises. We felt that by this time we had no "weight" with them thus we needed an alternative.

We talked with a real estate law firm that has a division within it that specializes in owner associations. They use a multi step process to collect. To the best of my recollection it goes like this:

1. After 30 and 60 days late we send polite letters from the HOA. In the next quarterly bill, the HOA sends notice reminding the owner they are 90 days late and asks for back and present dues or a payment schedule acceptable to the HOA within 30 days or we will turn the account over to a law firm for collection. It is now almost 150 days since we have seen a payment. We send it on to the law firm.

2. The law firm sends a letter informing the homeowner that they have received the case and are prepared to file a lien and commence to foreclose unless owed dues are paid or a payment schedule is arranged with the HOA within 30 days. The firm charges the HOA $65.00 for this letter.

The law/collection firm then back off and awaits further notification from the BOD. It is now back in the BOD's lap. The BOD then tries once again to reach an agreement. In several case, this was enough for them to make arrangements to pay. If no arrangement are made we turn it over to the law/collection firm again.

3. Law/collection firm sends a letter saying a lien has been filed (which it has) and foreclosure has commenced. It will now cost the homeowner $495.00 (to the law firm) plus owed dues to the HOA to stop the process. No charge to the HOA.

4. Law/collection firm files some paperwork with the court about foreclosure and notifies the homeowner that foreclosure has begun and it will cost $995.00 (to the law firm) plus back dues to the HOA to stop the process.

5. The next step would be the HOA pays the law firm $400.00 and foreclosure commences. The process is completely stoppable at this point by the HOA, the HOA would still have a lien, and the law/collection firm is owed $995.00

We do not want to be in the real estate business as in we have no wish nor desire to foreclose. I am not saying all should not foreclose but our decision is not to and as such, we have not gone past Step 4.

We have had three foreclosures. Two took about one year to settle and both units were sold but the HOA saw no money from our liens as there was none to be had. Our present one is a result of the owners death and the home is tied up in his estate.

Hope this helps.

HeatherC6 (Washington)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thank you John, that is very helpful, I appreciate the information. Heather

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