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MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
I have learned so much from this forum.
Soooo, I registered after searching for an answer to my question and finding none.

At this week's HOA Bd meeting, a director used a negative put-down tone to a HOA member attending the meeting by saying...."listen, honey!" Everyone was shocked and no one said anything. She does have witnesses.
Now she is thinking about it and wants to respond but doesn't know how to handle it.

Too bad nothing was said at the meeting so it could have appeared in the minutes.

But, at this point does anyone know how to handle this is the correct way?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarleeS on 03/09/2013 8:55 AM

But, at this point does anyone know how to handle this is the correct way?

Go to his home and burn it down to the ground. Salt the earth so nothing ever grows there again. Butcher his animals and sell his children into slavery. Tie him up in the back of his car and dump it in the swamp.

Or you could just accept the fact that this board member is not very good at dealing with people and remember that at the next election.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Marlee, were your present at the meeting? Are you on the Board, by the way?

Adding to Larry's advice to simply not reelect him, I think someone who had attended that meeting can rise at the next meeting during open forum and ask that director to please show respect to homeowners who attend. Or this h'ownr can ask the board to please instruct the rude director to be courteous to the membership in the future.
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarleeS on 03/09/2013 8:55 AM
I have learned so much from this forum.
Soooo, I registered after searching for an answer to my question and finding none.

At this week's HOA Bd meeting, a director used a negative put-down tone to a HOA member attending the meeting by saying...."listen, honey!" Everyone was shocked and no one said anything. She does have witnesses.
Now she is thinking about it and wants to respond but doesn't know how to handle it.

Too bad nothing was said at the meeting so it could have appeared in the minutes.

But, at this point does anyone know how to handle this is the correct way?

Yes the correct way is to handle it is censure (an official reprimand, by a legislative body of one of its members)in executive session, NOT in front of the membership.

Minutes should contain:

Legal Name – The legal name of the association needs to be included for reference.

Meeting Specifics – The date of the meeting, the type of HOA Meeting (Regular HOA Meeting, Special HOA Meeting, Executive HOA Meeting, HOA Meeting of the Members, etc.), the time of the meeting, mention/proof of meeting notice posting (esp. in Fla.), and the location of the meeting should all be included in a formatted header.

List of Attendees – The list of attendees should include the names and HOA Board Positions of all HOA Board Members that were present at the meeting, HOA Board Members that were not present at the meeting, any guests that were present to speak at the meeting (HOA Attorneys, HOA Landscapers, HOA Contractors, etc.), and any and all HOA Management representatives that were in attendance. HOA Members are typically not be included in the HOA meeting minutes.

Quorum – Were there enough HOA Board of Director members present to officially have a meeting? If you aren’t sure what this means, see the description on our F.A.Q. Page for more information about HOA Quorums.

Start & Finish Times – Identifying the actual start & finish times are important aspects to include in your HOA’s Meeting Minutes. Document who called the meeting to order and at what time as well as when and by who the HOA meeting was motioned to adjourn.

Board Actions – All HOA Board Actions need to be documented in the HOA Meeting Minutes. HOA Action Items could consist of approvals of specific or non-specific items, delegations of authority, and or directives voted upon for your HOA Management Company or HOA Property Manager to conduct during the period of time between regular scheduled HOA Meetings.

•Executive Sessions – Any items of HOA Business or discussions can and should be recorded during HOA Executive Meeting sessions for future reference.

There is no 'room' for personal opinions or discussions in BOD minutes. This is analogus to a 'bully pulpit' especially in the case of a discussion between the BOD and (a) member(s).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarleeS on 03/09/2013 8:55 AM

But, at this point does anyone know how to handle this is the correct way?

The individual/s who were offended by the comment need to first inform the individual that it is inappropriate and considered offensive.

If the behavior and/or comments continue, then the Board should censure the Director.

Unless the Director was appointed by the Board, if the behavior continued, the only other options after that would be to call a recall meeting to see if the member can be removed from the Board or legal action against the individual brought by the individual the comment was addressed to.

JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Legal action? Really?

What are the charges?

Hardly see how this soley reported incident rises to such a level.

Even BOD members can get 'caught in the moment' and possibly react in a less that professional manner.

Should LarryB13 be brought up on charges too?
MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
OK, your a male...but, I don't blame you for that.
You are right, we are trying to replace the board at the next election. But, that comes under another forum topic. We are not going to burn his house down to the ground. That would be bad for property values.

FYI...it was very much meant to be demeaning. It was a reminder of the old days when it was tolerated.
But, Larry, you just don't do that anymore...especially, in a professional environment.
Well, what is supposed to be in a professional environment!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarleeS on 03/09/2013 1:22 PM

But, Larry, you just don't do that anymore...especially, in a professional environment.
Well, what is supposed to be in a professional environment!

Professionalism is the very last thing I would expect in an HOA board meeting.

Marlee, I am far more sympathetic to this matter than you make think, but one rude board member's comment to a homeowner is not going to cause a disruption in the space-time continuum. Your remedy is at the ballot box.

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Or, just retort "don't honey me you sexist jerk." Works for me.

Jeanne
MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Larry,
We are desperately searching for anything and everything legal to get these guys off the board.
It is amazing what FL HOA law allows them to get away with.
I did find this:
WHY DOES FLORIDA NEED A HOA REFORM BILL
http://www.hoareformbill.net/index.html
SENATE BILL 580

SENATE BILL 596
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarleeS on 03/09/2013 2:15 PM
Larry,
We are desperately searching for anything and everything legal to get these guys off the board.
It is amazing what FL HOA law allows them to get away with.
I did find this:
WHY DOES FLORIDA NEED A HOA REFORM BILL
http://www.hoareformbill.net/index.html
SENATE BILL 580

SENATE BILL 596

Before you go any futher with this, can you tell us what the homeowner said that caused the board member to spout off? I doubt that his remarks were unprovoked.

BTW, the last time I was at Denny's a waitress asked me, "More coffee, Hon?" I am going to sue her and Denny's. I am not going to let them get away with this one.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Say, Marlee, as someone who was a "ringleader" in getting jerks off of our board a few years ago, I'd like to hear more about your current board and your HOA.

How many directors? Are they all problematic? How many are up for (re)election at your next annual meeting? When is it? How many units or detached homes are in your HOA? How many supporters does "your side" have?

But start a new thread about it. It sounds like the use of "honey" is possibly something that set off some of you who're unhappy with the current board anyway. I can't tell if it was a "last straw," or if you are "grasping at straws" since, while I think it was rude, I have to agree with Jay that it doesn't seem to rise to the level of that director needing to be censured, and you surely wouldn't be able to mount your recall campaign on it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayP3 on 03/09/2013 1:06 PM
Legal action? Really?

What are the charges?

Hardly see how this soley reported incident rises to such a level.

Jay,

I wasn't advocating for legal action.
I was trying to point out that there really is very little that can be done.
Some people are just idiots and jerks.

JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
I see Tim.

I misunderstood the last portion of this sentence I guess:

"Unless the Director was appointed by the Board, if the behavior continued, the only other options after that would be to call a recall meeting to see if the member can be removed from the Board or legal action against the individual brought by the individual the comment was addressed to."

Thanks for setting me straight.
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 03/09/2013 3:04 PM
Say, Marlee, as someone who was a "ringleader" in getting jerks off of our board a few years ago, I'd like to hear more about your current board and your HOA.

How many directors? Are they all problematic? How many are up for (re)election at your next annual meeting? When is it? How many units or detached homes are in your HOA? How many supporters does "your side" have?

But start a new thread about it. It sounds like the use of "honey" is possibly something that set off some of you who're unhappy with the current board anyway. I can't tell if it was a "last straw," or if you are "grasping at straws" since, while I think it was rude, I have to agree with Jay that it doesn't seem to rise to the level of that director needing to be censured, and you surely wouldn't be able to mount your recall campaign on it.

No CarolR11, I was saying if anything censure would be the prudent thing NOT legal action as another suggested... or did he?
MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Carol,

This board has been incompetent, also lies, insults members, against Florida Friendly landscaping etc. etc. We have an annual members meeting/election coming up and hope for a quorum so the members can hold their own meeting. We do have other candidates running.

You are right, the latest insult was the last straw. I guess you had to be there. It was an insult and I haven't heard that kind of treatment for a long time.
In my past life we were always going thru training about things like this. You would never say that in a professional environment. never!

Anyway, Maybe at this point all we can do is add this to the list of many complaints for the annual meeting IF the proxies are legiit! But, again, that is another thread.

thank you
Marlee
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Since when is a HOA a professional environment? Seriously let us not assign behavior onto a group of volunteers who have no professional requirements. The ONLY qualification a board member or any member has is to be a homeowner. That is it. (If it is owner owned/operated). Leave the professional attitude to the professionals like your Management company. Who is a paid, licensed, insured, and a business.

With that said, look at what your asking for. Your board is your neighbors and there is no training in that. So you may want to step back and stop assigning what you think should happen and what really is happening. You got people who were voted in because they expressed an interest in being involved in the daily operations of your HOA on the behalf of the general membership so they don't have to be. If you don't like them, then recall them and get other people who want to do the job. I am sure they will do something wrong too once they get in there. Amazinngly after you elect them I am sure they will "Change" once they get that office position for you too.

May I suggest stop focusing on all the insults and negatives and looking at what you all are paying for? Are your dues rising? Are you facing a special assessment? Are you always living in fear of the next "Possible" lawsuit you think your HOA is putting itself at risk for? Then you all have created your own chaos here and just need to go back to reading your rules and bringing a copy of them to the meetings.

Former HOA President
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
I think many are being a bit pedantic in focusing on the word profesionalism.

Maybe 'proper decorum' would suit the situation better.

MarleeS,

You wrote: "We are desperately searching for anything and everything legal to get these guys off the board."

If you and the like minded folks comprise 50%+1 of the membership/lots/units/etc. the BoD members can be easily replaced in Florida by a recall. No need to wait for an HOA election or the State to create/ammend laws.

You get the recall form from the web (Fl DBPR), take the forms door-to-door, and upon completion simply mail them to the agent of record and your recall will be done. No meeting required (unless the BoD contests it.
If they do wish to contest it then the BoD MUST call a meeting within 5 business days. If they fail to do so the recall is automatic by process of the law. If they meet and fail to certify them mandatory arbitration must follow.
YOU MUST process the forms (ballot completion) 'to the T' and can be done by amateurs.

You must also provide for alternate Directors to be elected if you attempt to remove a quorum or more.
You'll find lots of help on the web for this.

There's no excuse to let this continue if you have adequate support.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
So now HOA guidelines are to gain control over people's personal behavior when someone dares to use the term "honey". Now I for one would like to know the context of the conversation when that term was used. Rather than simply citing the term with no background as to what was actually exchanged. Sounds to me like a case of providing limited facts to support YOUR viewpoint. To be honest "honey" would be a vast imrovement over what I have called several residents on our property.

For some to suggest the Board, the HOA should now involve themsleves in controling personal behavior is IMO nonsense. But is that the real issue?
My guess far from it.

When people begin to rely on issuses such as this to degrade or bring into question the behavior of the entire it suggests to me desparation and a lack of real issues. The OP certainly has made it clear they are willing to do anything to remove the Board. The real question is do they have the needed support of the owners?

Sounds to me like the OP has their agenda and since the current Board is not in agreement then they must be forced out because there is just one right view for the property.

So now we can make an issue out of one word and discuss Board censure, legal action, perhaps anything to make this an issue more than it ever was to support OUR agenda.

Isn't there anything more important or pressing that needs to be addressed on this property than this?

Life Rule # 21347:

When you attack people, when you question their honesty, when you question their capability, when you question their ability to make wise decisions for their own property and investment publicly to their neighbors you make want to expect some blowback. Maybe even a litte stronger than "honey".

Find some REAL issues and points of disagreement or move on............
MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
exactly!
Life Rule # 21347:

When you attack people, when you question their honesty, when you question their capability, when you question their ability to make wise decisions for their own property and investment publicly to their neighbors you make want to expect some blowback. Maybe even a litte stronger than "honey".

That is exactly what is happening here...the board is getting blowback for those reasons.

Ok, I rec'd opinions....thanks...we move forward to the next problem...like not notifying members of annual meeting...another thread.

thanks again for your perspectives.

over and out
MarleeS (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Melissa

I just noticed your reply.
I was on the board for 4 terms... HOA Board president for 2 of those terms and ran the board meetings according to the statutes and by-laws. If anyone complained I would always refer to them.

It just isn't done that way anymore because they do not know what they do not know. There is a control that they enjoy more than anything else.

and...my meetings were professional and run by Robert's Rules. I think it was all about respect and the HOA members appreciated that.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'm glad to hear about your background of HOA service, Marlee. Until very recently, we also practiced proper decorum according to Robert's Rules, which states in more that a few places that personal attacks are not permitted

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