signing documents for liens and forclosures

IM president of association ...location is Florida townhomes, my concern is signing papers for liens & forclosures and being exposed with my names/signitures and board members name being exposed, you just dont know about people?

Wonder if we can have just the managers signiture on all the documents...just for the safety of the board menbers.

Thank you!

Just what exactly did you think the job involved when you and the rest of the little-girly-men on your board raised your hands? You want to make the decisions but you want someone else to take the responsibility. Pathetic.

I feel that there should be some protections of any board member that has too sign these type of documents for there safety.....theres lots of crazy people out there and if they want to get revenge ...they will go after the board members.

OK. Let me see if I understand you correctly.
1) You're concerned that having your signature on a document that places a lien on a home due to non-payment of Assessments sets you up as a target if the individual is, to use your words, crazy and you don't want to take that risk.

2) You have no problem with someone else taking that risk on your behalf (property manager, attorney, etc.) but you don't want to take that risk yourself.

If your concerned for your safety contact the police.

The same risk could exist if you deny a "crazy person" to put up a shed, paint their house a different color or park their boat on the street or in the driveway.

Every job has some sort of risk associated with it. Every decision has intended and unintended consequences.

If you don't want to accept the risk that you associate with the job, resign.

TimB4: Thats what our manager is looking into...if our atty can sign the documents instead of exposing any signitures of the boards members.........just for safety.

They shouldn't but, as you say, there are individuals who react poorly to the consequences of their actions.

I don't know your development or the individual you are concerned with. Therefore, I certainly can not offer an opinion if the risk is real or perceived. It is obviously real to you (and perhaps your board).

The consequence of you not wanting to take the risk yourself is additional expenses for the Association. The expense of a legal opinion on the options and then the expense, if possible, of paying the attorney to take the risk for you.

The Lien will be on behalf of the Association. The authority and power of the Association is executed by it's board of Directors. Since who serves on the Board is public knowledge (annual reports to the Corporation Commission) and common knowledge to the membership, I don't really see the risk being transferred to anyone else. All you will succeed in doing is costing the Association (i.e. you and your neighbors) money for, what I would call, a false sense of security as the risk would remain.

Sounds like someone wants the power and prestige but none of the responsibility.

MelissaP1: I joined the association cause Im concern aobut my community and care...but I also feel me or any board member should not put themselfs at risk, when it comes to signing lien/foreclosure documents....I feel its should be attys or managements to sig those docs...instead of ptting board members ast risk when they see these homeowners all the time...just dont know what actions people may take. key word PROVENTION.

non-feasance: failure to perform one's duties

mis-feasance: erroneousely (with good intentions) performing one's duties

mal-feasance: knowingly miss or non performing one's duties

a director / officer has the fiduciary DUTY to perfom the duties of their office

your unwillingness to perform the corporate duties of the office of president constitutes non-feasance ~ imo: bordering on mal-feasance

you WILL NOT be covered by the DO insurance should the HOA rack up legal bills due to such WILLFUL inaction

No, you are not on a power trip. You just want to strut around and tell everyone back home that you are president of your HOA while the truth is that you have paranoid delusions that others are out to do harm to you and the rest of the board members. You want the title but because you think others are gunning for you and the other board members, you want someone else to take the imaginary bullet for your actions. I don't know what they call that in Florida but around here they call it whacko.

I agree with you Melissa.

If the original poster truly feels threatened, they should contact the police and seek a restraining order.

If the OP is just concerned that a threat might happen, as I pointed out, it won't matter who signed the paper as it will be the Association filing or foreclosing the Lien and, since the board "is" the Association, the risk will still be there.

Yes, spouting off personal insults to someone who simply voiced how he saw things from his perspective (Sounds like someone wants the power and prestige but none of the responsibility) is the way to resolve things.

I hope you don't react that way to your membership.

SteveC you have your Johns mixed up. It was most likely JohnB26 your addressing NOT JohnC. JohnB26 you have to ignore for the most part as he is typically wrong but like a squierrel finds a nut once in awhile even if it's looking in the mirror. JohnC is different and often gives valid and solid advice. Plus serves a mean marghrita if your ever in mexico...

Now that we are done with the name calling and attacking one another. You can see that not wanting to sign your documents for your HOA is not a good thing. It really doesn't make too much sense as you represent the HOA in your position. You can talk for your board members as well in this but they are wrong too. You got elected to represent the ALL the owners in your HOA. Your faces and signatures now do that. If you don't want to then quite honestly quit and handover the HOA to a management company that will give you no voting rights at all.

I don't know what your scared of. It reminds me of those people who hate their manager at work but don't want to manage or be the boss. Then one day the boss quits and you all have to handle things now. No one wants to be the bad guy or the boss. What happens? Chaos and everyone fired. I say you and the board members who don't want to do this quit the board. Your HOA deserves better than this.

Yiddsih aside, in FL I would say

La junta no tiene bolas

With command comes respobsibility. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

just check with your insurer

you're welcome for the info

This is very chldish and un-professional......I join this site to get opions and not to be calling each other names...not a good at all.

To All:

My previous response to the OP was based in large part on some unpleasant and unwanted experience in dealing with a family member who suffered from a number of mental illnesses that culminated in senile dementia. In the early stages of dementia this family member became increasingly convinced that “they” were out to get her. Over a period of years this family member went from being extremely outgoing to being paranoid and delusional. Throughout it all, she continued to insist that there was nothing wrong with her.

The OP stated a set of irrational beliefs: First, that someone might do him some unspecified harm if he signs certain documents in his role as president of his association; Second, that he could avoid this harm by having someone else sign and “take a bullet” for him; and Third, that he would not be harmed if his signature does not appear on the documents.

The OP’s beliefs are not those of a normal healthy adult. While people can and do become emotional over the threat of loss of their homes, violence directed towards association board members is a rarity.

In this particular situation, the OP did not claim to be the victim of a vengeful homeowner or even having received a threat. His concern arises from an overly active imagination that unnamed parties might do harm to him and other board members if they sign certain documents.

Appalling as much as it is irrational is the suggestion that someone else should sign the documents and become the target of these imaginary threats. Even though the threat seems to be unreal, most people would be aghast at the idea that pinning a target on the back of someone else is a rational solution to dealing with threats.

The implication that the OP and other board members would be free from harm if they do not sign the documents is just as irrational as the rest of this. The name of the association is on the documents and all the members of the association should know who the board members are. It makes no sense to believe that a person seeking revenge would not seek out the board members who authorized the action against him.

The OP has expressed a set of irrational beliefs. Since, by definition, there is no rational basis for the beliefs the reason for them must lie elsewhere. I am not a doctor and I do not know anything more about the OP than what he has stated here. Nonetheless, my personal experience suggests that when someone acts on irrational beliefs that there is some underlying condition that needs to be dealt with.

Steve,

Make sure of Florida law in signing HOA foreclosure docs. Here in NC, the HOA president signs the forms authorizing an HOA foreclosure. It's the cost of being an HOA board member and it bothered me to sign it.

However, I think the 99% of the other homeowners who are paying monthly and want their amenities maintained for the investment they're contributing. By not stepping up, you hurt those who help you and support you the most by paying the HOA.

There's a lot of damage that's done by timid collections processes, but it's human nature to be sympathetic.

Steve, in our BOD we don't sign documents for liens and let our PM and Attorneys handle it. The PM company sends out the intent to lien then if no response it goes to the Attorneys to file the lien. We add all these costs to the homeowner so the HOA doesn't pay for these services (actually we do but then collect from the homeowner, but we are still waiting to see this money from many homeowners).

Options:

1. Have your PM company and attorney do it for you and charge it to the homeowner in hopes that you someday get your money back.
2. Do it yourself and save your HOA upfront costs and also save the homeowner costs that may make it more difficult to pay back and increase the chances of them ever paying.

With all the crazies out there, especially here in Florida (I think it is the heat and fumes from too much lawn fertilizer), I can see your concern for your safety, however, like everyone mentioned you are a target no matter who signs the documents and the chances of anything, beyond someone chasing you with a bat off of their property, happening are slim.

We have had our policy since before I was on the Board. It is hard enough to get people on the board to begin with so expecting them to do any work beyond showing up at the meetings is not going to happen. So we do have our PM do most of our work for us but we are still responsible for making decisions.

Just remember that you are going to have to estimate the costs of having your PM and attorneys do this work and add the costs into your annual budget so that you have the funds to cover the costs while you wait to collect it from the homeowners. This will increase your assessments.

I think our HOA has given permission to sign for us. This was set up a long time before I got on the board. I think it is how the Developer set it up.

I believe things work differently for our HOA because the Developer also owned the PM company (in the family). So they set it up so that the PM company really controls everything. However, our new manager keeps saying that she can't do anything without our decisions. The last manager was a control freak and some other HOA got him finally fired. Our new manager stays out of our decision making as much as possible but it can be because when she signed on she tried to control our decision making and I threw a fit and said that she works for us and we are the ones who make the decisions. Since, then she backs off but the office still sends intent to liens and liens without going through us first. For violations she sends us a list of photos of the violations then sends out letters without our response unless the homeowner complains then we have to make decisions for that violation.

The board members review all ARBs and approve/disapprove as well as when it comes to bids and setting up policies that we expect the PM company to comply with when dealing with homeowners.

We have people on the board that used to only walk around and report the neighbors with bad lawns and that was as much work that they did. I am glad that I am pushing them all to volunteer more but I can only expect so much of volunteers especially when no one wants to sit on the board.

To John Of SC

It is Wussy, Wuss, Wusses, weak, timid, sissy....some say it was a polite from of calling one a pussy.

From John Of SC, the better looking one.

No, you don't need to resign, but like it or not, someone on the board is going to have to do his/her job and sign the lien. I understand your concern for safety, but I've signed my fair share as treasurer for my association and to date, no one's come at me yet (most of them don't care what the Association does and are walking away from the house or they're trying to move and don't have the time to come after us).

Besides, you do have board meetings - what makes you think someone won't come into the meeting with a head of steam and confront you that way? He or she will know the lien comes from the Association because they will also get a copy of it and it'll be listed.

You've already seen cases in Kentucky and recently in North Carolina (I think, I forget the state) where some nutbag arguing with the association came in with a gun and shot some board members (the guy in the second case was honked off about some trees and killed himself after killing two board members and the man in Kentucky is pleading insanity, I believe). Certainly that would make anyone pause, but you have to do what's necessary and if you have someone that unhinged in your association, you need to be talking to law enforcement to see what you should do. Otherwise, if no one's said anything so far, there's no need to create a problem if one doesn't exist.

So, I understand you may be annoyed at some of the name calling, but most of what the others have aready said still stands. You are a homeowner association board member and the work won't always be sunshine and lollypops. This is one of those times where you'll have to do something that's unplesant, especially since we do get emotionally attached to our homes. But if you don't have the stomach for it, perhaps it's best that you do consider if you want to serve on the Board.

Thanks CarolR11 for you input.....IM just amazed of all the cold negitive replys I have received.pretty sad, all I want some suggestions, lots of cold people in this world. always too remember put your self in others people shoes......and treat others the way you would like to be treated and respected.

i stand corrected:

the proper term is:

pooooosie

Helen.

You have more cajones then the OP.......LOL