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AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
My HOA was sued by the privately owned golf course in the community. Apparently chemicals put in the ponds killed the greens. The suit was started before I bought but it was recently announced that the golf course won. Since the incident happened before i bought and I liable or does it fall back to the previous owner?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The actual debt didn't occur until the case was decided.
As a member you are responsible for your share of what the Association has to pay.
The previous owner is no longer a member and therefore, not responsible for the debts of the Association.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Oh, even if the previous owner was responsible, FL 720.3085 (2) makes it your responsibility to pay anyway.

Per that statute:

(2)(a) A parcel owner, regardless of how his or her title to property has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments that come due while he or she is the parcel owner. The parcel owner’s liability for assessments may not be avoided by waiver or suspension of the use or enjoyment of any common area or by abandonment of the parcel upon which the assessments are made.
(b) A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner.
AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Does the lawyer who did the closing and provided title insurance liable?
AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Sorry should have said

Does the lawyer who did the closing and provided title insurance have any liability?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No the lawyer, realtor, mortgage company, former owner and anyone else is NOT responsible. You are. You are a member of the HOA and subject to what the HOA is subject to. Like I always post = Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. You being a member you pay for it.

Former HOA President
AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I have no intent to sue anyone. I am disappointed that the golf course decided to sue the HOA when 97% of its members are residents,

My only hope was that I should have been notified when I paid for title insurance. To my knowledge Title Insurance is to ensure their were no liens against the property, This may not be a lien but it was an active law suit at the time.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It was the HOA' s business and you were not a member at the time. Should they not disclose it? Yes they are responsible for disclosing it to their MEMBERS. You were not one but now you are and have been informed. It was part of your due diligence to be informed about the HOA situation including reviewing the CC&R's which are public documents before purchasing. They do not have to hand you over their financials unless they want to as well.
The fact is that you have to pay and no one else to blame except for the HOA being responsible for being sued and losing.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
A title search at the time of the legal action likely wouldn't have caught it.
The golf course couldn't put a lien on any property until it had won the case.
The fact that you are in an Association shows meant that the golf course only had to file legal action against the Association and not everyone who was part of the Association.

FL 720.401 and 402 discusses the disclosure requirement for purchasing in an Association. I did not see a requirement that you be informed of any pending or current litigation. Therefore, if you didn't ask the question, the seller might not have been required to tell you about it (unless you asked).

If you would like to know for sure if others could be held liable, you should consult an attorney.
Even if others are liable, it won't lessen what you have to pay the Association. It would just give you the opportunity to spend more money in legal expenses to try and collect some of what you had to pay the Association from someone else.
AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Again i am not trying to sue anyone. There are 2500 homes in our association. The HOA was sued by the golf course. We are the HOA so we will be assessed now that the golf course has won the case.

My point was that since the incident happened before I bought I would not be liable but the previous owner would be. It appears I am wrong! I will be chatting with my lawyer as well but I think he agrees that I inherited the liability.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
In some states the seller would have a duty to disclose the lawsuit but evidently not in Florida STILL No Duty to Disclose Material Adverse Conditions in Florida.

Next time you buy a property visit the County Court website and enter the HOA's name and/or the sellers name to see if there are any ongoing lawsuits that might affect the property.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RayC4 (Virginia)
Posts: 173
Posted:
Not to beat it to death, but it was the HOA who was sued -- not any individual homeowners. When the debt is incurred, all current members would naturally be assessed their 'share.'

That said, I believe you should have been 'noticed' of a pending lawsuit against the HOA when you purchased your property. If you were not, I'd bring that to your attorney's attention (maybe not the one who did your closing!)
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
When you bought did the seller fill out a form stating all dues were current and their were no liens on the house? The seller has to disclose any damages and other things. I forgot what all the questions were on the form. At this point the seller should have told about suit pending. The Realtor usually calls the HOA and confirms the dues were paid and the house is in compliance with the HOA Covenants. At that point the realtor should have asked if there were any suits pending against the HOA. (This could possibly be an error on the Realtor's insurance coverage). I think you should sit down with your Realtor and discuss this. What is the amount of your assessment? After getting all your information and the amount you will have to pay. Then decide if it worth the cost of an Attorney.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 02/26/2013 8:30 PM
In some states the seller would have a duty to disclose the lawsuit but evidently not in Florida STILL No Duty to Disclose Material Adverse Conditions in Florida.

Glen,

The case discussed on the blog you linked to involved commercial, not residential, property. Apparently there are some disclosure requirements for residential real estate as the author wrote, "The buyer’s counsel was clearly aware of the long-standing rule in Florida that sellers of commercial property, unlike sellers of residential property, have no duty to disclose known material adverse conditions." [Emphasis added]

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Thanks for catching that Larry, I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on the interweb; I just remembered a scene from one of the "Lethal Weapon" movies where the guy was trying to sell his house and they had to list all of the assorted mayhem that had occurred there. It seemed to me that a lawsuit should have been required to be disclosed.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
In AZ we have various disclosure statutes and the realtors have devised their own form that discloses even more than the law requires. Curiously, one thing you do not have to disclose is whether a death occurred in the home. So if the "Lethal Weapon" team blew away the bad guys in your home, leaving dead bodies, blood, and guts everywhere, you would not have to disclose it when you sell.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Does it really matter anyways? We don't know when the court case was brought to court. Was it during the purchase time or after? Plus if it was IN court no decision had been made on who was at fault. It was just a pending lawsuit and the HOA would have said it was baseless anyways. It just the court later found it not baseless and the HOA loss. Remember at the time of sale no fault had been proven so there was no way of knowing the outcome anyways.

The most this should have effected at the time of sale is if this was a government back type loan like FHA. It would have had to be reported on the PUD form that is filled out by the HOA. Most other loan types don't require this form and would not need to be reported. However, even if it was reported on the PUD form, it just meant a possible higher interest rate or harder to be approved.

In the end the poster IS responsible as a HOA member to pay their fair share of the bill just like the other members. It doesn't matter if they saw it coming or not. It happened and it's a risk one takes when buying into any HOA. Se la Vive!

Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
What do we learn from this grim tale of a buyer “who may be disgruntled, but does not have a cause of action in fraud…”? First, material representations and warranties by a seller of real estate are no substitute for thorough investigations prior to closing, particularly if the buyer is, or is represented by (their attorney), a sophisticated party capable of conducting it, and even more so if the contract contains a strong “as is” clause. Second, the doctrine of caveat emptor is alive and well in Florida real estate transactions, subject to some troublesome exceptions that make prediction of the outcome in a given case difficult.

the key wording being: CAVEAT EMPTOR

AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I am not that upset I am just trying to figure out what I am entitled to. I purchased the property as a foreclosure so it was bank owned. I live out side the country so I depended on the lawyer to conduct a titke search and ensure the title was clear. I am accustomed to having Title Insurance that protects against people trying to claim the property through identity theft. The insurance also kicks in if in fact the title is not clean.

Here is my lawyers comment

In general, a pending lawsuit against an association would not necessarily have a notice recorded in the public records as the subject matter you describe is not litigation tied to a specific piece of property or more accurately, YOUR piece of property. So your title could easily be clear and there could be a pending lawsuit the title searcher would never know about.

If I need to pay I will pay. What hurts a but is that I have a second property I purchased as an investment, also a foreclosure. This means I may get hit twice.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AlK1 on 02/27/2013 12:22 PM

What hurts a but is that I have a second property I purchased as an investment, also a foreclosure. This means I may get hit twice.

If it's in the same development you probably will have to pay twice (once for each lot).
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Do you have loss assessment coverage in your insurance policy?

It is my understanding that given the right circumstances loss assessment coverage can help mitigate the costs.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Of course this would not show up on a title search. It has nothing to do with the title. Court decisions or actions are of public knowledge. A filed suit is not necessarily public unless maybe it is a class action type. Basically, you did not do enough research on this deal and was looking at the dollar signs instead. There's more to a HOA than just making dues payments and purchasing a home to one. This is one of those things that you were probably responsible for to find out. Again it is NOT the lawyers, realtor, HOA, or mortgage companies fault. It was your due diligence of doing the research such as getting a copy of the CC&R's and asking the right questions.

Former HOA President
AlK1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Wow! Lets take a deep breath and chill! I am not looking to blame anyone else but me. If the Title Insurance I have is not liable I will pay. Did I make a mistake .. it would seem so. Never bought into a HOA development before so I learned a good lesson. The purchase was not to make money it was to have a nice retirement home for the winter. I just asked a simple question, if everyone would have said talk to my closing lawyer I would have done so. Based on what I am hearing I will not.

I can tell you there are many seasoned home owners here that bought before the law suit that are not happy. They are not upset about what the Title Insurance is for but more so they are pissed at the HOA for getting them into this situation. The insurance company for the firm that dumped chemicals in the ponds that killed the greens paid up $2 million as their part of the settlement. The residents here wanted the board to settle as the insurance company settled but instead they insisted on fighting the case. They also indemnified the management company of any responsibility.

In the end it will only costs about $500 per home, not much more than a good nioght out!

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