💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

RobC1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our community, which is gated and has no tresspassing signs has recently been troubled by several indivuduals parking on our roads and conducting some sort of surveillance on one of the homes. The local police have been called on several occasions and have refused to remove these indivuals stating that they could be violating his/her rights. I stated to the officer that this is a PRIVATE COMMUNITY with coded gates and no trespassing signs. This PI is making all sorts of people nervous as they sit for hours in a car with blacked out windows in several locations in the neighborhood. The only wat they can gain access is to follow a car in. Does anybody have an idea? Local law enforcement refuses to do anything.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Sounds to me like there is something else going on here.

Are YOU on the Board? How is it you know who is in this vehicle?

Were you there when the police stated they would do nothing? Is there another police agency you could contact? Sheriff? State police?

As this is private property and IF you had the authority to represent that property I don't understand why the police would refuse to act.

Sort of like someone sneaking into your gated backyard and sitting beside the pool and having the police sugges this was their right!

Do you have any illegal activity in your community? Is it possible this is a police investigation of some sort?

If you really want them out put someone at the front gate and grant access only to those with property passes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The truth is that No Trespassing signs being posted don't really have the legal effect people think they do. It doesn't lay claim the property is private. You may want to change and put up signs that say "Private Property" instead. Which puts you all in a separate catagory legal wise in many areas. So the police may be right in that they can't remove that PI from the premises once they gained access.

All I can advise is to NOT do anything that requires private investigating. If your not guilty or know the guilty party, then what do you care? Let them do their job unless they are taking up your parking space. Do you really want someone living in your community anyways that someone hires a private investigator for? That would be my better concern...

Former HOA President
RobC1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am on the Board (President) Several homeowners have come to my home asking me to have this "creep" removed. They sit in a car with blacked out windows, will not roll the windows down or answer any questions as to who they are or why they are in our community. The police have stated that they know for a fact that they are PI's and they are doing an investigation. It isn't a criminal investigation or the police would be involved. Maybe somebody is cheating on theur spouse or commiting workers comp fraud. Personally, I'm tired of all of the residents calling me and coming to my door day after day saying "They're back!"
First the police department told a resident that they had to have "permission " from a board member before they could do anythingor remove them. I called, went with the officer and then I was told, in front of several angry residents that they could not "Prove" that our community was private, therefore they would possibly be violating this individuals civil rights by telling him to leave!
RobC1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
The sign at the gate say this is a private community. No trspassing. Violators are subject to arrest.
I don't see where the problem is. If they gained access by following a car into the community without a code or remote, that, in and of itself is trespassing is it not?
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Hire an off duty sheriff or security to boot him out and ticket/fine. Does your community allow for fining violators? I was in my father-in-laws gated community and got a ticket once for violating one of their parking rules. Couldn't you start fining these guys before you boot them?

Also, Florida has window tinting laws (http://www.tintlaws.com/laws/FL/). In addition to stalking, you might be able to get him on illegal tainting.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How can they be subject to arrest if the police won't arrest this person? A sign is just a sign. Should have checked with a lawyer to see your actual legal standing on removing unwanted guest. I'd suggest calling a lawyer and reviewing your documents to see what rights your HOA actually has. I don't believe it has "arresting" rights or some enforcement on the general public. Your HOA may indeed NOT be as private as you may think...Just tell the people who call you that your aware of the situation and it's being handled. Which according to the police the person has permission and is doing their job. That is it. Sounds like a bunch of busy bodies without anything else to do to complain.

Former HOA President
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Get a large sign that says "PI INVESTIGATING" and stand near his car when he is there. Get a mirror, and shine reflected sunlight into his windows. Get a leaf blower, and blow dust/dirt/leaves all around his car for hours. Give the local 8 year olds $10 to pester him with questions. knock repeatedly on his windows. Call 911 when he doesn't answer, because "you fear he was dead inside". Call the police, every ten minutes. Then call them again. and again. Accidentally spill deer urine on his car. Rhino boot his car. Tell the police you saw him taking pictures of 6 year olds in their swimming suits.

your mileage and legality may vary, but mostly, just call the police and tell them to do their job.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I thought about this again. What is the real problem here? The PI is doing their job. The police have determined they aren't doing anything illegal. There is no trespassing involved. I would leave the PI to do their job and leave them alone. Otherwise, you could be put into a position of interfering with the duties of a court officer IF they PI is hired by a lawyer.

If I was a criminal or guilty of something I would move to your HOA immediately and hide behind your gates. Seems your all aiding and abetting whoever they are investigating by trying to remove this PI and harrassing them for doing their job. Let them do their job and be aware there is a car parked in the neighborhood and keep an eye on it. That is all.

I used to live in a really bad neighborhood. Drug dealings, murders, gang fights...you name it. I had an undercover cop parked in front of my house every so often doing survelliance. They were doing it on a friend of mine's house down the street. They were looking for a murderer who had escaped jail and was suspected of going to my friend's house. Which they were right. He did go to their house. The police just missed him by 10 minutes and pulled a gun out on my friend instead. I moved shortly after this. However, because of the person this guy murdered it spawned a drive-by shooting to the house next door. The bullets nearly missed my neighbor's kids. The bullets hit their beds they were sleeping in. The Drive by shooters were friends of the murder victim and had got the wrong house. The right house was across the street. Mind you me and my neighbor shared a driveway that is how close it was.

So I am NOT against having a PI or an undercover cop in my neighborhood. Let them do their job and leave them alone. It will be my business when it is my business. Otherwise just chill and leave them alone.

Former HOA President
RobC1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I LOVE IT! That's what I'm going to do. Thanks for the advice!
RobC1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I agree and I just found out that it is an ongoing FDLE investigation concerning possible child abuse. A simple explanation without details certainly would have given them a better edge than having all of these folks in an uproar. Whatever element of surprise or ability to surveil was lost by them refusing to even roll the window down. It took 3 days until we were even told that they are a PI not a pervert. When a car sits on the side of the road in a family oriented neighborhood with blacked out windows and a windshield screen up and looking thru a little notch in the screen with binoculars, that tends to get everybody on edge. Now that we know what is going on and he's not a pedophile or a criminal casing a house there isn't a problem. Prior to today we had no idea who, what, where ect...
Thanks for the enlightenment.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
People also need to be aware of those "Magazine sellers" that come through the neighborhood. Those are the ones to watch out for. They do have to have a permit to come in and sell those Magazines for "Points" or whatever. States or cities are a little slow in making those activities illegal so they will differ in each area.

What happens in those scenerios with those sales people is that they are usually dumped off by their "handler". They are left alone to go house to house. They are given just enough money to survive. Those kids can get dropped off and left behind out in the middle of no where by these handler people at any time. They don't know that or they are in on the deal. Never let one inside your house and NEVER EVER give them a check. Of course do NOT give them money. Instead, I would offer to give them a number of a place that helps run aways so if they get abandoned they have some way of help. Call the police and get a description of the handler vehicle if possible.

We just had some of them in our neighborhood. They did have permits but turns out that the handlers people had 2 warrants out for their arrest each. The county the warrants were in refused to prosecute. When you call the police be aware that many of the 911 operators may not consider this activity to be "illegal" and may not send out police. I had to argue with a dispatcher for 10 minutes about this being illegal. This time it was our County sheriff's office that came and they actually did something about it. However, I encourage you all to get laws to make this illegal in your area. Otherwise, if you don't pressure your city's council to make this illegal then this can be arrestable.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
What did Dick Tracy think he was going to find? Did he expect to see Dad diddle his step-daughter on the front lawn? In the unlikely event that anything this PI found becomes the basis for criminal charges any first-year law student could get the evidence excluded as it was obtained by trespassing on private property without a warrant.

If he shows up again, set the van on fire right there on the street and make sure that the fire department cannot get through the gates. Don't forget the marshmallows.
NunyaB (Tennessee)
Posts: 1
Posted:
There is so much to unpack here...

I am a PI. I am a retired Criminal Investator as well.

First, as far as window tinting... In at least two states I am licensed in (TN and FL, but I licensed in 7 states currently) Window tinting has carve-out exceptions. So, My car is registered in TN so that is the only law that applies to me. In TN, only two entities can have dark tinted windows- governmental agencies, and Private Investigators. In FL, PIs can also have dark tinted windows. But the law for the state the car is registered in is the law that counts- regardless of what state I am working in.

Personally, I do not work what I call dirty work- seeing who is sleeping with who. Nobody cares, other than the person hiring the investigator. The courts do not care, it doesn't affect grounds for divorce, child custody, alimony, child support, or anything else. I work almost entirely criminal or potentially criminal cases. Yes, that means insurance fraud and Worker's compensation fraud.

You all should want these people caught. Firstly, they are trying to scam the system, while you and I work for a living. Why should they get away with free-loading off the system, when you and I should not and cannot. They are comitting a crime in doing so. Yes, a criminal offense. And, as most of these cases go, there are multiple states involved, so that could bring in various federal laws as well. On top of that, and to maybe some of you, this might be more important, but their criminal act raises your insurance by a buttload. This hits you and I both in the wallet.

Now, before any private investigator gets a case like this, there are already red flags on the account. The insurance company may have gotten a tip from a neighbor, or from a treating Dr, or someone else.

Now, as far as evidence being tossed out for trespassing- not so much. As a "private" investigator, we do not act as an agent of any governmental agency, so the "fruit of the poisonous tree" does not apply. We do not need, nor can we apply for, a warrant. Yes, we can be asked to leave, and if we refuse then we can be arrested for trespassing, but whatever evidence we gain before that is still good to go. Why any investigator would refuse to leave after being asked to by law enforcement is beyond me- that is just stupidity in action.

Now, when someone knocks on my window, I open it, and depending on the attitude of the person knocking on my window I will act accordingly. So, if the person at my window is pleasant, I am as well. I explain I am a private investigator, show them my ID and whatever. I tell them genrally what I am doing without giving any real information. Most of the time I have a cover story. But I reassure them and calm their concerns. And I also tell them as long as I am here- if anything were to happen- such as a burglary or whatever, I would be the one calling 911. Sometimes they call the cops, and sometimes they do not. Now if someone has a poor attitude with me, "What the hell are you doing here" with a nasty attitude, I do not get pleasant with them. I just tell them to call the cops and leave me alone, and then I roll up the window.

In most cases, in general, and I really want to get through to this as just a general rule, once the cops identify me, and are satisfied with my licensure, they are required to leave me alone. They are there because of a suspicious vehicle. Once they properly identify me and my license- and that I am working a case, the "suspicious vehicle" no longer exists. They may not ask about my case, who I am watching for, or anything else. They are not ruired to leave. On the other side of this same coin, I am not allowed- legally- to tell them anything about my case- or who hired me, or anything else. In many cases, the cop will ask me if I have a cover story to tell the caller.

Only very rarely do I get the asshole cop. 99.9% of the cops are all great. I think I have only had maybe 3 times when I get the asshole cop out of all the police interactions I have had- which is an awful lot. And remember, I am a retired cop. So, while I know we do have the occasional badge-heavy asshole cop (which by the way, we generally do not like them either), I also know you have assholes in every occupation- and even in every neighborhood.

So, in the end, please leave us alone in the long run. Sure, come knock on my window. Be pleasant. I will too. But, just as with the cops, if I show you my ID, that should allay your fears. Leave us alone. Do not call all your neighbors. Likely one of them is who I am watching. In most of the cases (and with me, 100% of the time) it is a potentially criminal matter. If for whatever reason you are not satisfied with my answers, call the cops and leave it alone.

Also, please keep this in mind as well- Even though we are there because of existing red flags- we are neutral parties. If we see our target, we video them. So, if they are actually injured anbd are not violating the medical and physical restrictions, we document that as well. The insurance comany gets the video no matter what we find. This could help relieve the insurance company's concerns as well. But, in most cases, I get people with all these alleged injuries and restrictions, I get them playing football all weekend, or climbing ladders painting or working on the roof, or whatever, etc. Even if they are doing nothing but sitting on their porch all day, he/she might have a restriction from sitting more that 30 minutes or something.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Nunya,
This is a 1-year-old post, but I thought your comments make great sense and enjoyed learning about the process. I enjoyed your name as well.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Sorry I meant 12-year-old post. Got to get a new keyboard.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
No trespassing signs should be at the discretion of individual homeowners, not the board.
JoeN6 (Virginia)
Posts: 94
Posted:
At our community airport , the private hangars are gated , with a keypad at the gates , so when a hangar renter wants to get in or out , you pull up to the keypad , enter your password , then the gate opens and it will automatically close after a minute or so . Same with several storage facilities in the area . One way to prevent a car from following in behind another , is when a resident opens the gate and drives in , drive in just enough to let the gate automatically close , blocking the following vehicle from entering . Does that help ?

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here