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AnitaC1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
We have a unit with 3 “service animals”. None of these dogs have manors or socialization skills. 2 of the “service animals” have been registered this week AFTER a letter from our attorney demanding they be removed from the premises. They bark incessantly and jump and bark at the end of their leashes. To qualify as a service dog and receive the full protection of the law, the owner must be legally defined as disabled and the dog must be trained to perform specific tasks to assist with that disability.

What rights does our HOA have? Can we ask them to demonstrate tasks? Can we ask them to demonstrate manors such as sitting when the handler stops and IGNOR others on the sidewalk? Then what recourse do we have when they do fail? The other day when one got off the leash charged barking and jumped on me they were NOT trained, socialized or in any form of well mannered.

So anyone can(for a small fee of $114 for mental health disability prescription and $68 for a patch and ID card stating the dog is trained, all done online) say any dog IS a service animal. The ADA narrowed the definition because of this problem.

They DO NOT take their ill manored dogs out shopping, restaurants, or to work. They seem to be people working the system. The owner of the first dog previously “registered”, back when tensions were not what they are today and LONG before the 2 new dogs moved in, bragged he could not be turned down at any hotel with his “service animal”.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The main issue appears to be the barking - service animal or not, I would think excessive barking could be considered a nuisance. If there's some sort of noise ordinance in your community, you may be able to tackle the problem that way. You will need to provide dates and times when the racket occured (recordings that are time and date stamped are always good).

As for the jumping, you didn't say if the dogs have knocked someone over or bit them - if someone's been injured, he or she can sue the homeowner (it's amazing how people straighten up and fly right when their wallet's about to recieve a beatdown).

Because of privacy laws, you probably won't be able to get any information on what the resident's "disability" is, but service dogs usually come from an organization that trains them and when they're out in public, they should be wearing some sort of vest indicating they are service dogs. In fact, they have to wear that vest in order to go in public places like restaurants or the owner has to have some sort of documentation showing what it is. And having once worked with a lady who trained service dogs, I know for a fact they usually don't jump up and down and act like what you've described.

You may want to talk to your local Humane society or animal control to see which organizations in your area provide service animals. They can tell you what the requirements are and perhaps they could provide some information on how to deal with this. For example if these dogs are "registered" with anyone, the organization that provided them should have some records.

You may need to have the attorney have another round at these people - perhaps threatening them with a lawsuit to remove the dogs if they don't get them trained or provide written verifiable documentation of their status as service animals. Good luck!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AnitaC1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
"The Board of Directors may, upon their sole determination, revoke or terminate the above conditional license if a pet is either vicious or is annoying other Co-Owners or occupants or is otherwise a nuisance"

All definitions for SA I have come across say a service animal is not a pet.

They contacted our attorney and got them “registered” within the last few days. I went online. I looked up information on “registering” a service dog. There was no prerequisite as to the tasks these animals should perform. There was no vet or agency to prove that they can do anything or are at least mannered. This site had a link to a website that will determine one’s mental need and prescribe that an emotional service animal is needed.

The dog hasn’t bit me any of the times I was rushed and jumped upon. That doesn’t make the trip to the parking lot any more pleasant when I see or listen for, any sign of them. With one head flip and baaarrrrrrkkkkkkk jump jump jump. I should not be fearful because I have to pass their unit. Last week, the weather was nice, I don’t know if anyone was home or not, the pit bull barked all day long. Both the front patio, back patio. No one calmed this dog, seriously, for hours. We couldn’t sit on our patio for the noise.

So because of this newly discovered mental disability and the need for an emotional service animal that they already had, we as neighbors do not have any rights? He already screamed discrimination because he is gay. Hey this has to do with dogs not sexual orientation.
AnitaC1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
The bylaws allow 1 pet under 30 lbs. and guests, tenants, and visitors of a Co-Owner shall not be permitted to bring any pets onto the Condominium property.

He had one small dog, that he had "certified" so he could travel with it.

Last fall he got a roomate that brought in a small dog, he claimed Dog #1 "service animal" status, the roomate as family, not a tennant and her dog #2 a pet.

Before Christmas the roomate, brought in her pit bull that she had been housing off property. This is the 3rd dog and way over 30lbs. Now all are "service Animals" that have been certified within the past few days.

What is funny, a couple years ago he wanted to ban all pets. That was before dog #1.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
A pit bull as a service animal is a new one on me. But service animal or not it sounds like your best recourse will be Animal Control. Are pit bulls allowed in your city - they're banned in a lot of communities. As to the dog jumping on you, pepper spray works wonders.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AlanH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
If I were you, I'd wait for the next time the dog tries to jump up on you, bend at the knees (so as not to fall too far) and roll down to your back. Then lay there moaning about back pain. Get your phone and call someone (spouse, friend, neighbor) to come and help you up. Tell the neighbor you want to know his insurance carrier so you know where to send the bills. Next stop, doctor's office or better yet, a chiropractor (check insurance first) where you complain of nondescript back pain. Oh, don't forget X-rays. If this neighbor can play the phony "service dog" scam, you can play the "sore back" scam.

If the dog snaps at you or makes any contact with his mouth, scream and grab hold of the offended extremity and immediately walk (or limp) home. Once there, put a bandage on the hand or leg and call the animal control officer. By the time they come out to investigate you can claim the the wound has stopped bleeding and you have it bandaged.

OK, I admit it. This is all pretty childish but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Owners must ensure that their service or emotional support animal complies with state and local animal control laws and is not a danger or a nuisance to the community.

If the dogs are barking non-stop, they may be violating local or state laws.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Service animals are pretty much this side of BS and a term used by many to attempt to defeat association restrictions. The post on 3 of them is truly BS but they accomplished what they wanted to do. They have the association on the run.

Time for the association to grow a "pair".
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnitaC1 on 02/09/2013 7:57 AM
We have a unit with 3 “service animals”. None of these dogs have manors or socialization skills. 2 of the “service animals” have been registered this week AFTER a letter from our attorney demanding they be removed from the premises. They bark incessantly and jump and bark at the end of their leashes. To qualify as a service dog and receive the full protection of the law, the owner must be legally defined as disabled and the dog must be trained to perform specific tasks to assist with that disability.

What rights does our HOA have? Can we ask them to demonstrate tasks? Can we ask them to demonstrate manors such as sitting when the handler stops and IGNOR others on the sidewalk? Then what recourse do we have when they do fail? The other day when one got off the leash charged barking and jumped on me they were NOT trained, socialized or in any form of well mannered.

So anyone can(for a small fee of $114 for mental health disability prescription and $68 for a patch and ID card stating the dog is trained, all done online) say any dog IS a service animal. The ADA narrowed the definition because of this problem.

They DO NOT take their ill manored dogs out shopping, restaurants, or to work. They seem to be people working the system. The owner of the first dog previously “registered”, back when tensions were not what they are today and LONG before the 2 new dogs moved in, bragged he could not be turned down at any hotel with his “service animal”.

Anita,

It is not clear just where or with whom these dogs were "registered." Could you provide a link to the website?

The owner/occupant is claiming that the dogs are medically necessary and that they are service animals. It would not be unreasonable for your association to request a statement from a doctor attesting the need for such animals.

The mere fact that a person may for a fee register a dog as a service animal is not very persuasive. Service animals are usually trained by an accredited training facility. You would not be out of line requesting documentation from the training facility.

Give them ten days to either show proof or ditch the mutts.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Alan,

I love that idea. Lots of drama. Newspaper headline: "Service Dogs" Maul Neighbor!
AnitaC1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Here are 2 of the links I found yesterday after searching “Service Animal Registration”. Conveniently NSARCO (National Service Animal Registry) provides a link to Chilhowee Psychological Services to provide the prescription for this registration. There were many others I found yesterday. I do not know where they got these dogs’ registration.

http://www.nsarco.com/emotionalsupportanimals.html

http://www.cptas.com/pk.html

I do not doubt the feelings that an animal can provide. Although at this time I don’t have a dog, I have had them all of my life. I know the feeling of unlocking the door and being greeted by wagging tails. I do have a concern with the “need” for a service animal (actually 2 additional) only after the HOA attorney sent a letter and the short amount of time to have these pets registered. We have not received any documentation to support their certification; I do think they can provide these, but how legitimate are they and must we the BOD accept them. The reason the rule was narrowed in response to requests from disability advocates, who asked the Attorney General to adopt a tighter definition to address the fact that people were faking or exaggerating their disabilities and/or trying to get companion animals treated in the same manner as service animals.

Yesterday the roommate was informed, if this needs to go before a judge or magistrate we (The BOD) will require the dogs to be brought into court to be “evaluated”(if only by their unruly conduct in public). If these service dogs act out in court like they do around here there is no doubt their lack of training. They made these living arrangements knowing full well of the violation. Honestly I think it was encouraged because of it.

Allen - I love it, a fake attack by fake service animals.

John – We are trying!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Anita,

If you were to take this owner to court for violating your association's pet rules, the burden would be on you to prove that there is a covenant violation or that the dogs are just a nuisance. That sounds like a slam-dunk.

Should the owner assert that these are service animals, the burden would be on him to prove that he has a medical neccessity for three barking dogs, including a pitbull. That means he will have to provide witnesses (who will be subject to cross-examination) as to both his medical needs and the dog's fitness to provide the services required. No court is going to accept a certificate from a website as proof. To the best of your knowledge, this owner has never consulted with a medical professional licensed in your state about these dogs and it is doubtful that such a person would put his license on the line by appearing as a witness for the owner.

I would not hesitate to take this guy into court and let him on his dog show for the local court.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 02/10/2013 12:23 PM

No court is going to accept a certificate from a website as proof.

Larry,

I see why. A quick internet search for "certify dog as service dog" showed that for my ability to click a box swearing my dog does listens and obeys met and $250 a company will certify my dog (who I don't have) to be a service dog.

The site does mention that "It is illegal to represent that you require a service animal, unless you have a disability requiring such a dog a Service Dog must perform a task to assist a person with a disability." However, for $250 they will accept your word and issue a certificate.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/10/2013 12:36 PM

A quick internet search for "certify dog as service dog" showed that for my ability to click a box swearing my dog does listens and obeys met and $250 a company will certify my dog (who I don't have) to be a service dog.

$250? The site Anita linked to wants only $114 for their "certificate."

We have eight cats. I wonder if I can get a group discount on certificates so we could deduct the costs of keeping them from our taxes. Unfortunately, anyone who has a cat knows that they neither listen nor obey.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Wait. I will do it for $75 per dog and $12.50 per cat.

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