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RuthR1 (Illinois)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I am on the association board. In the past, the board published the names of those who have not paid dues. I now realize that was a serious error in violation of the Federal statutes on Fair Debt Collection. My question is, how do we remove this stain on our history so that we avoid any chance of getting sued? At this time, no one is threatening a suit, because I am the only person who is aware of the fault. Is there a statue of limitations--if so, how many years? We stopped publishing names about 2 years ago.

I ask because before we take any action against delinquent owners -- even a certified letter -- I want to be sure we cannot be sued. I'd rather manage without some dues than take a risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Ruth

We are talking about an association of owners. Many (myself included) believe it is legal to let other owners know who is behind. I also think it shames some into paying.

Where did you get your information?

Thanks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
First off, anyone can sue for anything at any time. Don't waste your time worrying about it. If I didn't get threatened be sued atleast once a month I wasn't doing my job. Learn to say: "If you want to sue then that is your right, please send us the paperwork when you do. We will be waiting". Then wait. If they do follow through, then counter-sue. It's cheaper and let them do the work. Plus the fact that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Tends to have people back off on the threat.

Secondly, it is a heated debate on here about revealing people who owes publishing their names. I am against it. It's NOT to say the membership has no right to that information. It's just when it comes to the individual and the HOA that should be kept private except for the action the HOA is taking/spending on collecting. If your association is NOT taking action, that is a problem. It isn't if your HOA has an established collections policy in place and pursues debt on a regular basis. We had a policy of 6 months behind we liened your behind. That way the ones with financial issues could make arrangements and those who want to protest/avoid paying got what they deserved. No need to publish anyone's names if everyone knew we had a policy and we followed through with it.

I think publishing people's names isn't shameful as much as it sets people up for vigilantism. Which is the biggest concern when it comes to revealing names of debtors. What if you had to go into the hospital for hemmroid surgery and couldn't pay your dues for 2 months until you got back to work? Do you want your name on the list and then have to be "accountable" to explain you had a personal and private surgery? I think not.

So just stop revealing names and go by lot numbers alone when discussing. That is what we did. If someone wants to figure that out then let them. Not the HOA providing the information. Just let the membership know the collection rate and that action is being taken on who hasn't paid. That should be enough information for anybody. If it isn't then they are just a busybody with nothing better to do.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
For now, I wouldn't worry about it if you've stopped and no one's brought it up. However, if someone suggests resuming the publishing of names, tell them this could be a violation of federal law (Fair Credit Reporting Act and Fair Debt Collection Act). The penalties for violating the law could be huge - not could the Federal Trade Commission come after you, the owners could also sue - especially if you published incorrect information about how much they owed, how long it's been delinquent, etc.

Like Melissa, we never disclose owner names or addresses when we discuss delinquent owners - we usually refer to them by account number. If someone really wants to know who's been sued or if they're being foreclosed on, they can use their own time and money to check with the courts.

I believe people really aren't ashamed of being in debt anymore. In fact, there seems to be some sort of perverse pleasure in running up debt and then beating the system by running away, identity theft or declaring bankruptcy (which is why some of those commercials from the bankruptcy lawyers irk me to no end.)

A better question is "what are you going to do if you find out your next door neighbors aren't paying?" If you're going to hand over a check to cover the debt, that's fine and you can talk to the homeowners about getting your money back - otherwise, the "shame" factor usually doesn't change anything.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Welcome to the Forum, Ruth. I agree with Melissa & Sheila and we don't publish the names either. To see the numerous debates on this topic see Forum Search.

And I agree that you shouldn't worry, this long after the fact, that someone's going to sue you for publishing their name. It's your board's obligation to try your best to collect dues, so send those certified letters. If one is somehow in error, you might get an angry phone call--but no one's gonna sue you about it!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
All:

I am not nor do I play a lawyer but I believe you will find wording such as below in debt collection rules and regulations:

any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts

I say this might just be saying if it is the HOA (not a 3rd party) is attempting to collect debt owed to it, is not considered to be a debt collector as the HOA and owner are related by common ownership.

Not playing lawyer here but many say you cannot name those behind. I say you can. Not doing so for various reasons is your decision, but I say it can be done.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I can jump off a 10 story building with a parachute doesn't mean it needs to be done or should. Each HOA is different. However, I have never seen the benefits of publishing anyone's name to all the members. It doesn't help any at all except make the person more upset. That's when you get those "threats of lawsuit". I say it's always best to keep the debt owed between the board/MC and that specific member. What the board is doing to collect the debt and collection rate is open game. I told people we had 5 non-payers, 3 with liens, and the rest were paid up. That's all anyone needed to know. Any more than that is just for your own benefit.

Like I always say. The budget of a HOA is like leaving your checkbook on the table for your whole family to see and spend from. How would you like to announce to the family your spouse didn't pay the credit card this month? Would that just bring the best harmony and peace in the world? I think not...Discretion is key to a happy family...

Former HOA President
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Fair Debt Collection Act does not apply to HOA's It only applies to debt collection companies.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mel

Do you agree that an association could publish if they desire to..salt or no salt?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
They do publish in the collection report. However, the collection report is only for board members. Should it be in a newsletter ? No. Can it be requested with records? Maybe. That would be discretionary as depends on the purpose of the requester. I think individual should address their own account only.

Now if it is election time, then it does need to be known if the candidate is in good standing. They don't have to be elected. They just don't get to vote. Who is going to vote for a member who owes?

I worry about those situations that involve harrassment between neighbors. That is when I say it is discretionary. It can be dangerous to release that information. I've seen some heated arguments and that adds fuel.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RuthR1 on 02/09/2013 6:42 AM

I now realize that was a serious error in violation of the Federal statutes on Fair Debt Collection. ... At this time, no one is threatening a suit, because I am the only person who is aware of the fault.

The statute you refer to applies only to third-party debt collectors. Your association is not subject to its limitations. Relax.
GlenS1 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I'm thinking about providing the link to the county assessor's website and tell them to search for our HOA name. Results will show the name of the HOA as well as those with leins against them. It's public record. Anyone can search that.
GlenS1 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenS1 on 03/26/2013 3:31 AM
I'm thinking about providing the link to the county assessor's website and tell them to search for our HOA name. Results will show the name of the HOA as well as those with leins against them. It's public record. Anyone can search that.

Sorry, Recorder of Deeds.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Anyone can search that on their own. No need to provide them a link. If you are that obsessed with knowing who owes money they do the work. Otherwise just let the board do their job and take the action they need to take.

Former HOA President
GlenS1 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/26/2013 3:57 AM
Anyone can search that on their own. No need to provide them a link. If you are that obsessed with knowing who owes money they do the work. Otherwise just let the board do their job and take the action they need to take.

Not obsessed Melissa. I'm on the board and know the names. Many on here believe that others knowing the names sort of guilts those that owe - to pay. Also if everyone knows the names, and they're found to be in the pool, they could question why they're there, even though their pool card was de-activated. Always helpful to everyone to know the reason for the special assessments is because of those who choose not to pay. Information is a beautiful thing.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No it is not a beautiful thing and is on the verge of vigilantism. It's not a good idea to let everyoone know who owes as it gets people "empowered" in their head they can do something about it. The truth is that your HOA should have a lien policy in place. Our policy was 6 months behind in dues, we would lien unless you made payment arrangements. The policy was what was known to all the owners and NOT who owed. That policy had more effect than any naming of names ever had. Believe me if you establish a line and announced that line, people will fall in line with it or you will know to take more aggressive actions. Only the board should know who owes not the general membership. It just creates a toxic living situation considering it is the board's responsibility to establish a policy on collecting and pursuing.

Former HOA President

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