Utility trailers

Started by AlisonG • 19 replies • 3536 views

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AlisonG (Florida)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I am asking for help in clearing up an issue we have in our community with utility trailers. We have a homeowner who keeps a 5x8 utility trailer in their driveway. I should note that our community is a Neo-traditional one, with alleys behind the homes and garages and driveways in back of the lot. Our design code says "Storage of boats,trailers and other vehicles up to 18'long and 8' high is allowed only within the buildable area. Measurement includes boat and trailer. In another section of the documents it says the same thing except the word "parking" is used instead of storage. The homeowner has provided documentation explaining what the "buildable area" of their lot is and according to that information, they are within the guidelines. We have some issues with other homeowners in reference to commercial vehicles but this owner claims his is not commercial and indeed has no signage or markings on it. It is not visible from the street and is correctly secured. I believe he is within his rights, but other board members disagree and continue to send him violation letters. Florida law says a trailer is not commercial unless the weight of the trailer coupled with the car that typically towes it weighs more than 10,000 pounds. The homeowner has provided us with proof that his weighs less than 8,000 with his trailer loaded to capacity. Can anyone advise us on this?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Based on what you provided, I agree that the individual is in compliance.

AlisonG (Florida)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks for the quick reply. I believe the only leg we have to stand on would be the fact that our Articles state that the Association may regulate or prohibit the parking of trailers, boats and oversized vehicles as well as excessive vehicles. But coupled with the fact that the Design Code clearly states that "parking" and "storage" is allowed, I am not sure if we can use that defense. There are several commercial vehicles, boats and trailers in the community and to this point the board has only sent letters. Some have been here 7 years or more. On this one however, I have to agree. I think this homeowner is correct.

JimD15 (Florida)
Posts: 21

Posted:

I have to agree with you Alison. My employer who owns an auto dealership once in a while would drive home a conversion van. The HOA send him violation letters stating vans were not allowed. According to FL DMS statues (years ago) panel vans were classified as vans and window vans were considered station wagons. The HOA lost out on that one. If the trailer situation is as you described..attached to a vehicle with 10k weight.. the trailer would have a permanent tag attached. This trailer is not be considered commercial even if it is registered in a company name, it would still be issued a private registration.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

It appears that from what you have described he may be in compliance? You might want to review your Town's codes for more detail. In our case some of our parking restrictions are more restrictive than the Town's. Your governing documents may spell it out or may need some "interpretation"? Here is what we use, generally, if it has signage, ladders, maintenance, or construction related gear on it we consider it commercial.

"Commercial Trailers: No box type trailer, commonly used by, but not limited to the construction industry, either open at the top or fully enclosed, with a box length over 10 feet, or more than one axle, is to be stored on a residential lot, with the exception of an active construction site."

Paul T

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Ask this question: What is the end result you all would like to see and why? Is it just because it's for violation for violation sake? If you can't see it from the street and the person has proven it's in compliance, then let it go.

This is another example how people sometimes get lost in the details of their rules. It is NOT devaluing anyone's property by having it. It's not a profit making oportunity for the HOA to levy fines IF they are allowed to do so. They will need to have a fining schedule and the right to fine before they can follow through with these threats. Plus not all states allow fines to be the basis of liens. Florida has some different rules than most states regarding HOA so you will have to research that.

Keep in mind that a HOA does NOT keep the value of anyone's home. It's purpose is to ATTRACT potential buyers by keeping the area neat and orderly. It is more likely a buyer would purchase in an area that is attractive. Does this violation cause an issue where it is an eyesore or just violation?

Former HOA President

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Melissa, It sounds like he's trying to defend the homeowner against other board members who think he is in violation.
I'm just stumped at the "buildable area" term. Isn't that anywhere inside the required lot-line setbacks?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 02/07/2013 4:57 AM
Melissa, It sounds like he's trying to defend the homeowner against other board members who think he is in violation.
I'm just stumped at the "buildable area" term. Isn't that anywhere inside the required lot-line setbacks?

Dave,

Buildable Area is the space remaining on a lot after the minimum setback, drainage provisions, ponding, compensatory storage, soils, open space and other site constraint requirements of this ordinance have been met.

See this link for a good visual of what I'm talking about.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Forgot to add that using "buildable area" language typically discards using the front section of the driveway (if not all of it) but also allows storage in the rear or on the side of the property (depending, of course, on the size of the house).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Alison

Based on what you have said, I believe the trailer is within the guidelines and can be "left/stored" in his driveway.

AlisonG (Florida)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks for all the information. Yesterday it was brought to my attention that there was an addendum to the original documents which contains items that were pre-approved. This community is 12 years old but is still developing. We have had several builders in and out over the years.It seems that newer home owners were given owner documents which contained this section but the older homeowners never got it. The odd thing is, it was created to help the homeowner understand what items did not need pre-approval yet the following is contained in it.
RV's,Trailers,Commercial vehicles and boats
*May NOT be parked in the neighborhood on a regular or long term basis unless completely enclosed in a garage with the door closed, or kept completely out of view of common areas and other lots behind a privacy fence or hedge.
It then goes on to talk about RV's,blocking traffic, loading and unloading, etc.
Several homeowners have complained that they never received this Pre-approved Design Code section and they are all original homeowners. Another board member is arguing that if the info. is recorded at the Clerk of Courts office, that's all that is required. The homeowner with the trailer says that his original docs say the trailer is allowed within his buildable area and refuses to move it. This is a tough one. Any thoughts?

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AlisonG on 02/07/2013 5:52 AM
Thanks for all the information. Yesterday it was brought to my attention that there was an addendum to the original documents which contains items that were pre-approved. This community is 12 years old but is still developing. We have had several builders in and out over the years.It seems that newer home owners were given owner documents which contained this section but the older homeowners never got it. The odd thing is, it was created to help the homeowner understand what items did not need pre-approval yet the following is contained in it.
RV's,Trailers,Commercial vehicles and boats
*May NOT be parked in the neighborhood on a regular or long term basis unless completely enclosed in a garage with the door closed, or kept completely out of view of common areas and other lots behind a privacy fence or hedge.
It then goes on to talk about RV's,blocking traffic, loading and unloading, etc.
Several homeowners have complained that they never received this Pre-approved Design Code section and they are all original homeowners. Another board member is arguing that if the info. is recorded at the Clerk of Courts office, that's all that is required. The homeowner with the trailer says that his original docs say the trailer is allowed within his buildable area and refuses to move it. This is a tough one. Any thoughts?

Unless he has a written copy of a varience or an exception to the governing documents it appears he is in non-compliance. It appears the intent of the rule is to prevent your Assn from becoming an unsightly parking/storeage lot.

Paul T

ParkerJ (Virginia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

how can you have multiple versions of your HOA's rules and regulations? What exactly is it that is recorded at the Clerk of County?

Sounds like your association needs to start over from scratch, get ONE copy of directives that are approved by the owners. CHanging them over time and then selectively trying to enforce some but not pay attention to others is a recipe for disaster.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

With the additional information, the homeowner may not have the right to park that trailer in his driveway.

If the change was "filed at the courthouse" as an addendum to the Covenants (Deed Restrictions) and for sake of agruement it was done properly, then I say it stands even if the owner(s) knew nothing about it.

When one agrees to the Covenants they also agree as to how the Covenants can changed which might well be on the whim of a Declarant (before owner control) when the Declarant has the ability to do so.

One saying they did not agree to any change does not stand up as the overriding issue is they did agree to how changes could be made even if they do not like nor agree to the changes.

Seems the only justifiable arguement is "some" were not notified of the change. Personally I do not believe that changes enforcement of such.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I agree with John.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

I would have some serious doubts about the legality of an "addendum" created after some homes had been sold. Your CC&R's should have a section on amending the declaration. Once the developer sells a single lot he is bound by the terms of his declaration. Even if the developer was still in control of the association, could not cram an amendment down the throats of the property owners unless the declaration specifically allowed it. Just because the addendum was recorded does not make it binding.

Instead of resolving the trailer dispute, the addendum just complicates it even more.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Larry

You say:

I would have some serious doubts about the legality of an "addendum" created after some homes had been sold. Your CC&R's should have a section on amending the declaration. Once the developer sells a single lot he is bound by the terms of his declaration. Even if the developer was still in control of the association, could not cram an amendment down the throats of the property owners unless the declaration specifically allowed it. Just because the addendum was recorded does not make it binding.

Are you taking issue with the word "addendum" versus the Covenants being properly "amended" by the Declarant? Most every set of Covenants I have seen pretty much allowed the Declarant to amend them as they desired to while they were in control. The fact that the Delarant can change the Covenants is one of the "chances" one takes when buying in while under Declarant control.

It can also help. We are using this to our advantage as we are working on a turnover from our Declarant to we owners. Our "turn over committee" is discussing amendments to the Covenants that will help us run the HOA. Amendments our Declarant can presently make without owner permission.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/07/2013 12:10 PM

Are you taking issue with the word "addendum" versus the Covenants being properly "amended" by the Declarant? Most every set of Covenants I have seen pretty much allowed the Declarant to amend them as they desired to while they were in control. The fact that the Delarant can change the Covenants is one of the "chances" one takes when buying in while under Declarant control.

It can also help. We are using this to our advantage as we are working on a turnover from our Declarant to we owners. Our "turn over committee" is discussing amendments to the Covenants that will help us run the HOA. Amendments our Declarant can presently make without owner permission.

John,

The very term "addendum" says that this is not an amendment to the covenants but rather an after-thought. What authority did the party who recorded it rely on to impose it on the owners? To what owners does the addendum apply?

Since the covenants are a contract, they usually cannot be altered without the consent of at least some portion of the owners. If the developer wants to count himself as an owner, let him produce deeds showing that he owns the lots. (Developers often never have title to the land they sell as they entered into trust agreements with actual land owner.)

Having control of the association is not the same as having control of convenants.

I have known a few people who described themselves as developers. They are almost always ignorant of even the most basic legal principles because they uniformly believe that the law never applies to them.

Could you quote that portion of your covenants that allows the declarant to amend them at will?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Larry

I am not going to go pouring through my docs at this time, but also while Declarants might not be able to do so "at will" (and that can vary state to state) with docs properly written in their favor it might as well be at their will.

Be realistic. If I own the ball, I make the rules...until there is another ball...LOL

I lost a job one time but maintained I was right. My boss said: Yes you were right....but you were dead right.

Ever know the guy that won every battle he ever got into, but he still does not understand how he lost the war?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/07/2013 3:25 PM
Be realistic. If I own the ball, I make the rules...until there is another ball...LOL

The problem is that the developer did not own the entire ball, he gave up his rights by selling parts of it. If you start checking public records, you may find that the developer never owned any of it all.

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