Vacant unsecured homes

Started by MatthewM6 • 13 replies • 2707 views

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MatthewM6 (Georgia)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I'm in a large subdivision in Fayetteville, GA and there are a number of vacant properties that are open for anyone including vandals to walk in. Our covenant states that the owner has 10 days to make repairs or the HOA will make the repairs and bill the owner. The HOA are saying there is nothing they can do because it constitutes trespassing. The HOA cuts the grass. What's the difference? Are they stalling or what.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Is grass cutting part of the amenities or are they doing it solely for the abandoned properties? Yes it is technically trespass and they should have a court order to attach locks. An alternative would be to contact your local authorities and see if they will secure the premisses.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Matthew,

If the properties are vacant, what makes you think the Association would get their money back after they made repairs?

Yes, you can bill the owner (if you can find them) but if they walked away from the property they likely don't have the money to pay the bill.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

If the HOA is responsible for lawncare (like ours) then they can continue to mow. They can not touch the house. Most likely bank owned and they are just waiting on paperwork and someone to buy the place. It would be trespassing entering the home. The HOA does not own the house.

Former HOA President

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

I'd consult with local police. If the bank is dragging its feet, that's one thing. But public nuisance and public risk must be contained or every effort legally exhausted.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

It's not trespass until the owner files a complaint. If someone wants to claim ownership of these derelict homes then let them step forward, maintain the property, and start paying assessments.

Get some really long wood screws and a cordless drill. Go into these homes and secure every door and window with the screws. Do it from the inside so the outside still looks OK.

Once the all the windows and door have been secured from inside, then it is time to secure the front door without damaging it. You can install a new deadbolt or have the existing one re-keyed at a locksmith. The objective is to keep the house closed up without it looking too much like a haunted house. Make sure the water is turned off and turn off the main breakers.

Every community in the country has houses like this today and it may be years before the bank steps up to claim ownership. Leaving these houses open invites continued vandalism and no matter how bad these houses look now, they will only get worse in the short term. You can stand around and argue that it is someone else's problem but your property values are the ones that are going to plunge unless you take some reasonable action.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

That is illegal Larry in most states and can get the HOA in LOTS of trouble to put locks on these houses. Sometimes common sense things don't make the law. Putting locks on property one does NOT own is a problem.

The most the HOA could possibly do is 2 things. Contact the owner and request they do something to secure their property. That is IF they haven't abandoned it and don't care. 2nd is to contact the bank that is foreclosing on it and have them secure the property. That bank should also be aware the home is in a HOA and dues are also owed on the property. Plus your HOA should have put a lien on these properties in bank foreclosure for unpaid dues. Doesn't mean you will ever see the money but it does give you all a chance to do so.

The reason the HOA can continue to mow the grass is that the OUTSIDE of the home is considered "Common Property". It is labelled that so that it can mow the lawn per their contract without it being considered "Trespassing". In many HOA's the owners own the house and the lot it sits on. Everything else outside of that is considered common property and in the control of the HOA. Keeping the lawn mowed whether or not they have paid their dues is irrelevant as the HOA has to keep up with their end of the deal. Which is to maintain landscaping. Plus it helps in keeping vermin under control and the neighborhood looking nice.

The HOA can NOT enter these properties or lock them up. They could maybe in an emergency situation such as a broken pipe or fire. However, they still have no rights to modify the property in anyway including locks. The bank can really have a field day on that with their lawyers if you all ever do that.

We had an abandoned property for over 10 years in our HOA. We just kept a lien on the property and the lawn mowed. The misconception of HOA's is that they are to keep property values up. That is NOT true. The HOA ONLY keeps the property ATTRACTIVE to buyers so that more buyers will want to purchase in that area. More potental buyers the easier and better off everyone is to sell their property. It has nothing to do with the value of the home.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/05/2013 6:37 AM
That is illegal Larry in most states and can get the HOA in LOTS of trouble to put locks on these houses. Sometimes common sense things don't make the law. Putting locks on property one does NOT own is a problem.

The most the HOA could possibly do is 2 things. Contact the owner and request they do something to secure their property. That is IF they haven't abandoned it and don't care. 2nd is to contact the bank that is foreclosing on it and have them secure the property. That bank should also be aware the home is in a HOA and dues are also owed on the property. Plus your HOA should have put a lien on these properties in bank foreclosure for unpaid dues. Doesn't mean you will ever see the money but it does give you all a chance to do so.

The reason the HOA can continue to mow the grass is that the OUTSIDE of the home is considered "Common Property". It is labelled that so that it can mow the lawn per their contract without it being considered "Trespassing". In many HOA's the owners own the house and the lot it sits on. Everything else outside of that is considered common property and in the control of the HOA. Keeping the lawn mowed whether or not they have paid their dues is irrelevant as the HOA has to keep up with their end of the deal. Which is to maintain landscaping. Plus it helps in keeping vermin under control and the neighborhood looking nice.

The HOA can NOT enter these properties or lock them up. They could maybe in an emergency situation such as a broken pipe or fire. However, they still have no rights to modify the property in anyway including locks. The bank can really have a field day on that with their lawyers if you all ever do that.

We had an abandoned property for over 10 years in our HOA. We just kept a lien on the property and the lawn mowed. The misconception of HOA's is that they are to keep property values up. That is NOT true. The HOA ONLY keeps the property ATTRACTIVE to buyers so that more buyers will want to purchase in that area. More potental buyers the easier and better off everyone is to sell their property. It has nothing to do with the value of the home.

Boy, I wish you could speak to our former Board president - every so often he'll send a long letter about what the board is/isn't/should/shouldn't do and usuallly ends with the "HOA are designed to increase property values" line. And this guy is a realtor (who's sold some of the townhomes in our community to investor owners who rent the place to anyone who can fog a mirror).

As to the security of vacant house issue, we have our security office swing by regularly to look for signs of vandalism or break-ins and the people living close by are usually good at calling him or our property manager with concerns. Late last year, we had him walk through the property to see which homes are vacant, and we'll probably have him update that list from time to time. Some are between rentals, others were vacant because of bank foreclosures or the owner has moved out because he/she died, the Association is foreclosing, etc. The banks have done a decent job of securing the homes, but we have had to go after some owners to at least drain the plumbing so the pipes won't freeze and cause more problems.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Realtors are the "Used Car saleman" of the housing market. That old tag line of "HOA's are to keep property values increasing" is just a sales line. The original setup of a HOA is just a sales tool. It morphs into something else once the owners take over. A little bit of salesmanship and corporate/quasi government is what a HOA is.

Many people buy into the HOA Kool-aid about the HOA is supposed to keep home values or values up. It does make sense but not reality. Reality is that home values are based on what other homes of similar size, amenities, and location sell for in a general 2 to 3 mile area. What really drags home values down is the number of short sales or foreclosures that occur. Those numbers get recorded to reflect what sold in the last 6 months for comp's in the area. It's NOT if the homes were in a HOA or not.

Look at it this way. The HOA controls the appearances of the homes and offers amenities such as pool, clubhouse, or lawncare so that buyers want those things. A buyer is most likely to purchase your home over a home that doesn't offer those options. Non-HOA homes it is very expensive to have your own pool, mow the lawn, or rent a gathering place elsewhere to entertain. I know for our old $50 a month in my HOA I got lawncare, access to a pool/clubhouse, garbage pickup, and some corrective actions on eyesores. My non-HOA home, I have no pool, pay someone $80 a month to mow, $15 for garbage pickup, and I have to clean up my own messes or deal with the eyesore across the street.

Former HOA President

MatthewM6 (Georgia)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I'm at a loss as to why lawyers would put something in a covenant that is illegal that is if it is illegal. My covenant clearly states that the HOA can make repairs that are not done by the owner after a 10 day waiting period after notification. It is my understanding that a covenant is like a contract between individuals and is entered into voluntarily when you purchase the house because it's part of the deed.This may mean that you are agreeing to to abide by it's rules and regs. So how is it trespassing if you invites the HOA to enter your property by not abiding by the rules. Will somebody address this.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Matt

I agree with you. Many are "paranoid" about doing so. They quote whatevers/whomever as reasons not to do so.

I say do it.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

It is also illegal to create a nuisance. You are one of those who is willing to sit on their butts and wringing their hands for a decade while letting their neighborhood looks like crap. Oh, wait! You did take action: You sent a very sternly worded letter to the last known address of the last known owner. And, of course, recorded a lien which resulted in an immediate end to the problem, right? Yeah, if ten years is your idea of immediate.

The core of the problem is that the owners have walked off and left the property for others to deal with. The owner who abandons his property has no grounds to take action against adjoining owners who take steps to diminish the negative effects of his abandonment. Your method of dealing with it is to do nothing at all. My method is to at least keep the abandoned home from becoming the neighborhood crackhouse.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Can the HOA enter a property and do the repairs the owner neglects to do? Yes they can. It wouldn't be trespassing. The problem is as Tim has stated that why do that on an abandoned house? If the bank isn't getting the money to pay the mortgage why would the HOA get theirs to do any repairs. If your HOA has enough money in it's budget to do the repairs, pay for the lien, notification letters, and wait a long time for the lien to be responded to, then go for it. I wouldn't waste the HOA's money on a house that we would never receive any money back even if it sold. Putting money in an abandoned house is like going next door to your neighbors house and paying to put gutters on their house. Did you tell your neighbor they needed gutters as required and did you make sure they knew they had to pay you back for it?

As for my situation with the abandoned house for 10 years. I inherited that issue from the previous board and president. They never did anything but placed a lien on it. I searched the records and found the owners. Unfortunately it was an LLC who was also being foreclosed on with several other properties. Too late for us to get anything done. However, the house was sold and became occupied by renters. Atleast we were getting our dues paid after that.

If the abandoned home is becoming a "Crackhouse" that is a police matter NOT a HOA one. Call the police or form a neighborhood watch. Just don't assume you can fix the situation and enter the home. That is illegal and get you in a bunch of trouble. Count on it. That is trespassing. It isn't if the owner just refuses to do the repairs and knows the HOA can enter to do the repairs.

Former HOA President

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/05/2013 6:47 PM

Can the HOA enter a property and do the repairs the owner neglects to do?

I never once suggested making "repairs." My advice solely addressed securing the home from intruders. I do think it would be in the association's best interest to keep the exterior appearance of the home in good repair if it can be done at a reasonable cost.

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/05/2013 6:47 PM

If the abandoned home is becoming a "Crackhouse" that is a police matter NOT a HOA one. Call the police or form a neighborhood watch. Just don't assume you can fix the situation and enter the home. That is illegal and get you in a bunch of trouble. Count on it. That is trespassing. It isn't if the owner just refuses to do the repairs and knows the HOA can enter to do the repairs.

Actually, it is a matter for the entire community. Standing there waiting for the police to leave the comfort of the local donut shop and actually do something does not solve the problem. Closing off access to the house does not stop crime but does cause it to move elsewhere, hopefully to another community. (And if it gets close enough to the donut shop maybe the cops will make a bust or two.)

It is up to the courts to determine whether entering an abandoned home to secure it against criminal activity is a crime. Even if the cops did show up and make an unlikely arrest for trespassing, the owner will have to appear at trial and testify, as an essential element of the state's case is that the defendant had no lawful authority to enter. Since the problem is that the owner cannot be found, case dismissed.

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