💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:

I live in a community in Tennessee, there are 21 lots in the community, 18 of the lots have homes built. Of the 18 improved lots there are 12 with fences that are visible from the road.

Our covenant regarding fences states:

"No fences shall be constructed with the exception of ones built of like kind to the fence built along XXXXX Road by the developer, unless approved by the developer and/ or his assigns. Other fences may be permitted in wooded or non visible areas upon approval of the developer or his assign.”

Of the 12 fences installed, 1 (yes one) fence is compliant it is a four rail wooden fence . 2 others asked for permission to put in fences that don't comply 1 to enclose a pool(white vinyl privacy) area and 1 because the owner wanted a fence that was better match for his house(white vinyl three rail). both were approved.
8 of the fences were installed without consulting with the HOA and are non compliant fences The type ranges from chain link to woven wire and are used to keep dogs or keep wildlife out of gardens. These fences
have been installed over the last 15 years.
The HOA Board has never taken any action against any of the non compliant fences.

About a month ago another fence was installed. It's a six foot cedar Privacy / stockade style fence.

The HOA Board has told the homeowner the fence must be removed. At the HOA meeting yesterday the homeowner stated the covenant had been abandoned and is unenforceable, and that the action taken by the Board constitutes selective enforcement. He refused to remove the fence.

I'm looking for input from folks that have been in this situation and what the solution was.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
let the attorneys order their new limos

the 'offender' does have a point

i am not an attorney
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Darryl,

If I understand what you wrote, you have 18 homes on 21 lots. Of the 18 homes, 12 have fences and 11 of those 12 do not comply with the original standard set by the builder but have been in existence without objection from the association for up to 15 years. Now you have a 13th fence and the 12th one out of compliance.

With 2/3 of the homes out of compliance and a history of non-enforcement by the association, you would have a hard time convincing a judge that the property owners as a whole wish to enforce the fence rule. On top of that, the board themselves approved two of those non-compliant fences.

If I was the guy who put up the latest fence, I would be circulating an amendment to the CC&R's to remove the restriction on fences. I would know where to collect the first 12 signatures. How many more would I need?

Forget about the non-compliant fences. They are a lost cause.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 02/03/2013 7:25 AM
Darryl,

If I understand what you wrote, you have 18 homes on 21 lots. Of the 18 homes, 12 have fences and 11 of those 12 do not comply with the original standard set by the builder but have been in existence without objection from the association for up to 15 years. Now you have a 13th fence and the 12th one out of compliance.

With 2/3 of the homes out of compliance and a history of non-enforcement by the association, you would have a hard time convincing a judge that the property owners as a whole wish to enforce the fence rule. On top of that, the board themselves approved two of those non-compliant fences.

If I was the guy who put up the latest fence, I would be circulating an amendment to the CC&R's to remove the restriction on fences. I would know where to collect the first 12 signatures. How many more would I need?

Forget about the non-compliant fences. They are a lost cause.

Me thinks Larry has made a good point. That horse is long gone from the barn.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If all the homeowners like fences, vote to change the CCRs and allow fences. Its your HOA, you dont have to live by ancient CCR's if no one agrees with them. But you do have to follow a legal process to have them changed.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Larry
The ironic part of this is, the compaint was lodged by one of the Homeowners that received pemission to install his non-compliant fence. I can understand his complaint to a point he went by the rule and asked permission to install his fence. the other guy did not.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Assuming the offending party is correct. Is the abandonment / selective enforcement claim one that is universal or does it vary by state
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Darryl and Darryl......LOL

As I see it, basically the issue is beyond the BOD as they have zero chance to satisfy all no matter what they do.

If the issue is to be persued (by the BOD or the upset homeowner), it more then likely would end up in court.

Do you or anyone want to go this route?

I say it might be time for benign neglect on the part of the BOD.

DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
I assume by benign neglect,
you are suggesting the BOD ignore the violation ?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You are a member of the HOA. So take it up with the board if you find it in violation. That is your right to do. If your a board member then you can then work with your other board members on deciding on how to handle the situation. Otherwise as a member you can just bring it up to the board to act on.

If your looking for a solution the most aggressive solution is NOT cheap. It will cost you ALL money to correct. The HOA could notify the owners of their violation and have them remove or get approved to keep what they have. If that doesn't work, the HOA on THEIR dime can remove the violation and send the owner the bill. If the owner doesn't pay that bill the HOA can lien for that amount they paid out to remove the violation. So your looking at thousands of dollars per each situation as I am sure someone will want to bring a lawyer in as well.

So your choices are limited. Live with it and/or change the rules so these are no longer considered violations. No one says your HOA can't change the rules to allow these items to no longer be violations.

Former HOA President
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Melissa

The BOD has instructed one homeowner to either make his fence compliant or remove it. The BOD has stated the other non compliant fences can remain. The homeowner that the BOD has singled out is claiming the covenant regarding fences has been abandoned, or the BOD is guilty of selective enforcement. The intention of the homeowner is to keep the fence.
The BOD has tabled the action for 45 days and asked for feedback from HOA members. That is why I am posting here.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
He makes an excellent point, especially if his fence is not materially different than the other fences. This will get expensive and contentious very fast, as I see it the Board has three options:

Take the homeowner to court to force him to remove the fence and explain to the judge why his fence is objectionable and the others are not.

Change the fence requirement by amending the CC&R's.

Get the homeowner to make a request for the fence and rubber stamp it approved.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Oh, unless any of the fences violate local building ordinances, then you might be able to sic the Building Dept on the offenders.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Darryl,

Just to further complicate things, the covenants first says no fences. Then it says, well, OK, you can build a fence if it looks like the one the developer put in. Then it says, well, OK, other fences can go in if they are approved by the developer or his assign.

So there are three different stories on fences in two sentences in one paragraph.

Then there is the question as to whether the developer assigned his rights to the association. Without proof that the association is the assignee of the developer's rights, the board hasn't got a leg to stand on. Normally the developer would execute and record an assignment of his rights. In the absence of such a recorded document, the developer and not the board may be the party with the right to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

Finally, there is the board's failure to act in the first nine or so non-permitted fences over a fifteen year period. To let half the homes build non-compliant fences without objection or action then jump on the tenth guy is, as the lawyers like to say, capricious and arbitrary.

I see the board's actions as being almost impossible to defend, so the question is how much do you want your assessments raised to pay for the costs of losing a case in court? Depending on who sues who, your association could be on the hook for both their own and the homeowner's costs. Even if the association's insurance kicks in, you will have to pay a deductible and increased premiums when the policy is up for renewal.

The board may have another option: Most covenants allow a homeowner to seek an injunction to remedy a breach of the covenants. If that is the case, then the board has the discretion to tell the complaining party that they choose not to fight over the new fence but the complainant is free to take action on his own if he so chooses.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
The fence in question is different in material than the other offending fences (see original post) it is a cedar privacy/stockade fence. while the other non approved fences are different types of wire (chainlink woven wire etc...) The board did approve a white vinyl privacy fence, and a white vinyl three rail fence, the covenant does allow for the board to make exceptions regarding fences.

The question is

A, Has the board abandoned the covenant by not enforcing the rule since 1994 ?

B. If so how do we move forward regarding fences as a community ?

C. If the board insists on this one fence being removed are they guilty of selective enforcement ?

D, If they are guilty of selective enforcement what is the potential consequence for the board ?

This is important to me, these people (all of them) are my neighbors and I want to do what is right concerning this issue. I see both sides of the disagreement. Both sides appear to be steadfast in their position, and I am looking for feedback from folks that have been involved in similar incidents.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
A. Most CC&R's have somewhere in them a wavier clause, here's ours:
No covenants, restrictions, conditions, obligations or provisions contained in this Declaration shall be deemed to have been abrogated or waived by reason of any failure to enforce the same, irrespective of the number of violations or breaches which may occur.

B. Change the covenant or make it known that from this day forward the BOD will have zero tolerance for fence violations. Something future Boards may or may not honor.

C. Yes IMO since they have been so lax in the past and gave no notice before the fence was in place.

D. Besides looking like idiots, that would be a question for an attorney but at the very least I would expect that the judge would make the HOA pay for the Homeowner's legal fees.

BTW while the material may be different the style, privacy fence, is already in place and is an approved style.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Darryl,

If the Association approved the fences, per the section you cited, the approved fences would be in compliance.

If the other fences were installed without approval, ignore the style of the fence. Stick to the simple issue that prior approval was required and was not sought or granted.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Is this an "asking for forgiveness instead of permission" situation? Did this owner not get permission before putting the fence up. That sounds like the issue here.

Former HOA President
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Larry the covenants are a mess,that's part of the issue. I believe the HOA is in control as the Developer is long gone and THe HOA has taken action on an unrelated issue that ended up in the courts.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/03/2013 11:07 AM
Is this an "asking for forgiveness instead of permission" situation? Did this owner not get permission before putting the fence up. That sounds like the issue here.

The owner is not asking for forgiveness. His position is that the covenant regarding fences has never been enforced. He is correct regarding enforcement until this incident the HOA has never taken action on a fence issue (15 years). As a result the homeowner in question has stated the covenant is void (abandoned) and cannot be enforced .
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/03/2013 11:04 AM
Darryl,

If the Association approved the fences, per the section you cited, the approved fences would be in compliance.

If the other fences were installed without approval, ignore the style of the fence. Stick to the simple issue that prior approval was required and was not sought or granted.

The HOA is only requiring one of the offending homeowners to remove his fence. The homeowners position is that the covenant regarding fences has never been enforced. He is correct regarding enforcement until this incident the HOA has never taken action on a fence issue (15 years). As a result the homeowner in question has stated the covenant is void (abandoned) and cannot be enforced .
He has also stated if the covenant is enforced againsnt him and no one else it is selective enforcement.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It still sounds like this person did NOT ask for permision to install this fence. ven if the other fences are similar or break the rules they sound like they went through the approval process. A board can approve something that is wrong but does make it a standard. I would say they want this person to remove it because of procedual issues. Syill does not their fence right if they modelled it after a fence that was approved but wrong.

Former HOA President
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/03/2013 12:38 PM
It still sounds like this person did NOT ask for permision to install this fence. ven if the other fences are similar or break the rules they sound like they went through the approval process. A board can approve something that is wrong but does make it a standard. I would say they want this person to remove it because of procedual issues. Syill does not their fence right if they modelled it after a fence that was approved but wrong.

Melissa the offending homeowner did not ask permission.He has openly stated as much. That is not in question. There are ten other non compliant fences that did not ask permission and installed fences as well. At yesterdays meeting the BOD said they will allow those ten fences, but the most recent fence must be removed.

Is that selective enforcement ?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Darryl

I believe many are saying just because a BOD did not enforce something, they did not surrender their right to do so and they can decide to do so at any time. I say you have the right to start enforcement at any time you so desire to do so.

I also believe many are saying with some 16 or so out of 18 fences never having been asked permission for and nothing done about any of them, they might well not want to be on the end of defending enforcement against one new fence as it could get costly.

Were I the owner you decide to go against one thing I would be doing is going to my fellow fence owners and saying if we do not amend the Covenants, Bylaws, whatever, then the BOD will come after you next. I think I could scare enough to amend.

I might also scare enough to recall those on the BOD making the waves.

Were I the owner you decide to go against my reply might well be no problem neighbor. I will see you in court.

In summary, I say you have the right to start enforcing but I would give long and hard thought to if I wanted to it. My first course of action would be treat the issue with benign neglect as in ignore it.

Your decision.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 11:26 AM

The HOA is only requiring one of the offending homeowners to remove his fence. The homeowners position is that the covenant regarding fences has never been enforced. He is correct regarding enforcement until this incident the HOA has never taken action on a fence issue (15 years).

There is typically language in the documents that specify that failure to enforce a covenant now does not prevent enforcement later. Example of such language:

"Failure by the Association or by any Owner to enforce any covenant or restriction herein contained shall in no event be deemed a waiver of the right to do so thereafter."

Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 1:08 PM
the offending homeowner did not ask permission.He has openly stated as much. That is not in question.

Well, that is the violation.

Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 1:08 PM

There are ten other non compliant fences that did not ask permission and installed fences as well.

Sounds like there are others guilty of the same violation.

Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 1:08 PM

At yesterdays meeting the BOD said they will allow those ten fences, but the most recent fence must be removed.

Oops. An Association must, I say again must enforce a covenant equally.

They can chose not to enforce a covenant against anyone. However, if they do chose to enforce, they must enforce equally.

Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 1:08 PM

Is that selective enforcement ?

Sounds like it to me.

Here is more info on that issue:

Avoiding HOA Rule Selective Enforcement Claims 2012 CAI Article
PAYNE v. CUDJOE GARDENS PROPERTY OWNERS ASS'N, INC. Case involving Selective Enforcement
COVENANT ENFORCEMENT-SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT CAN BE A KILLER 2004 article by Taylor & Carls, P.A
Selective Enforcement Challenge for Homeowner Associations 2012 article on HOA Management Blog

Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 11:26 AM

He has also stated if the covenant is enforced againsnt him and no one else it is selective enforcement.

I think he is correct.
Will he challenge it in court? - that's an unknown
Will the Board take the issue to court? - that too is an unknown
What will happen in court? - Also an unknown

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
The courts have universally held that CC&R’s are a contract between the parties. Contract law therefore applies to CC&R’s as it would to any other contract.

Contracts may be amended in several ways. The most definite amendment would be one in writing and such amendments are commonly provided for in the CC&R’s.

Contracts can also be amended constructively. That is, even though the written agreement states certain terms and conditions the parties have mutually consented to different terms and conditions. Among the things that would be considered in determining whether a constructive amendment has occurred is how times and over how long a period the parties have consented to different terms than those in the written agreement.

In this case, over a fifteen year period slightly more than half of all occupied lots have erected fences without seeking approval. During that same fifteen year period, seventeen out of eighteen made no objections to the fences at all. The one party who did object did not object to the first nine fences and waited until the last fence was erected to voice his displeasure.

So you have 17 owners who made no objections at all to the 10 unapproved fences over fifteen years and one owner who waited fifteen years to voice an objection that applied to only one of the fences, the last one erected.

Most judges will find that the owners have constructively amended their CC&R’s to allow the unapproved fences. The objecting owner is spitting into the wind.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 02/04/2013 5:06 AM
The courts have universally held that CC&R’s are a contract between the parties. Contract law therefore applies to CC&R’s as it would to any other contract.

Contracts may be amended in several ways. The most definite amendment would be one in writing and such amendments are commonly provided for in the CC&R’s.

Contracts can also be amended constructively. That is, even though the written agreement states certain terms and conditions the parties have mutually consented to different terms and conditions. Among the things that would be considered in determining whether a constructive amendment has occurred is how times and over how long a period the parties have consented to different terms than those in the written agreement.

In this case, over a fifteen year period slightly more than half of all occupied lots have erected fences without seeking approval. During that same fifteen year period, seventeen out of eighteen made no objections to the fences at all. The one party who did object did not object to the first nine fences and waited until the last fence was erected to voice his displeasure.

So you have 17 owners who made no objections at all to the 10 unapproved fences over fifteen years and one owner who waited fifteen years to voice an objection that applied to only one of the fences, the last one erected.

Most judges will find that the owners have constructively amended their CC&R’s to allow the unapproved fences. The objecting owner is spitting into the wind.

Sounds to me how an impartial person would see it.
ParkerJ (Virginia)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Darryl, first off, I think you're off on the wrong foot by having the initial Board action being a demand that the fence be removed, if that indeed was the first action taken. You are a small HOA, why be so negative with members? I would think the first action taken would be a reminder to the homeowner that fences need to be pre-approved, and the homeowner should now formally apply for an approval, even it is after the fact.

Is there a reaon this fence would NOT be approved, when 11 others exist that similarly were not pre-approved? Are these other 11 being told to take down their fence?

As someone else mentioned ...it is YOUR HOA, you don't have to treat outdated CCRs that you all don't agree with anyway like they are written in stone. That just appears as small minded.

Bottom line: working with members equally rather than issuing selective edicts will go a long way. I realize I don't know all the facts of your particular situation.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
The Board has sent a final notice threatening legal action against the homeowner. I feel the Board is making a mistake. Based on what little information I've been able to find, and the feedback I've received here, the homeowner's claims of abandonment / selective enforcement are accurate.
I fear the HOA is about to learn an expensive lesson !
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 11:26 AM

As a result the homeowner in question has stated the covenant is void (abandoned) and cannot be enforced

That's an argument that would need to be decided by a court.
DarrylJ (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Update: On February 2nd. the HOA agreed to suspend action on the fence for 30 to 45 days , and meet with the homeowner to try and work out a compromise. This agreement was made at the HOA meeting on February 2nd. On February 26 the offending homeowner received a letter from the HOA stating that he must submit a written compromise that is accepted by the HOA or immediate action would be taken by the HOA. In speaking with the homeowner he said he felt that the HOA had breeched the prior agreement and had a lawyer send a letter to the HOA reaffirming his position that in his opinion, the covenant regarding fences had been abandoned. He also said he would screen the fence with landscaping . After thirty days the HOA had not responded. The homeowner has planted at least 100 small trees bushes etc.. The fence is still visible. Earlier this week the homeowner ( 5 months after the homeowner responded to the HOA) received a summons from the HOA's attorney demanding that the fence be removed, that he pay attorneys fees and court costs.
I was at the February 2nd meeting and the HOA did agree to table and meet with the homeowner in 30 to 45 days. If what the homeowner said about receiving a letter on February 26th. is true, then the HOA did not honor that agreement . Further he says that they never replied to the letter his attorney sent in response to the HOA's letter. The attorneys letter requested a copy of the meeting minutes which were never sent.
Today I spoke with the homeowner and he said he is considering filing a counter suit against the HOA to cover his legal expenses and court costs. He said that he has documented all communications and actually recorded the HOA meeting on February 2nd when the agreement was made to table and meet with the board in 30 to 45 days.
At this point I'm a concerned homeowner. If he wins I think this could mean a significant increase in my HOA fees.
I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that our HOA has at best a slim chance of winning this.
I'm looking for a solution to this issue before it goes to court, any suggestions ?
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 02/03/2013 7:03 AM
Our covenant regarding fences states:

"No fences shall be constructed with the exception of ones built of like kind to the fence built along XXXXX Road by the developer, unless approved by the developer and/ or his assigns. Other fences may be permitted in wooded or non visible areas upon approval of the developer or his assign.”

I see big problems with the HOA trying to enforce this covenant.

First, the HOA may have no standing to enforce the covenant even if it is valid. Only the "developer or his assign" has that right. The HOA will need to prove that it is the developer's assign. The mere fact that the developer turned control of the association over to the owners is not, to me, evidence that the developer assigned his rights to approve fences. The covenant clearly placed control of fences in the hands of the developer and not the HOA. Without a written (and hopefully recorded) assignment of the developer's rights to the HOA, then neither the association nor an owner has authority to enforce the covenant.

The covenant itself is both vague and ambiguous. It is vague because it does not adequately describe the type of fence "built along XXXXX Road by the developer." It is ambiguous because it says "No fences" at all, then says one type of fence may be built, and then it says other types of fences may be built with permission from the developer. So, does "No fences" equal some fences?

Finally, there is the problem with widespread noncompliance. Half of all the homes built fences that appear to be out of compliance with the covenant and all violations except the most recent one have been ignored by the other owners, the developer, and the HOA. CC&R's are a contract and a contract may be constructively amended by the parties when acts contradictory to the terms of the contract are taken and the other parties acquiesce to those acts. If the owners and their association turn a blind eye to enough violations of a covenant, a court will assume that the owners have constructively modified their CC&R's.

Bottom line is, the guy with the fence has a better case than the HOA does.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well it sounds like the person is counter-suing for his legal costs. Which they are entitled to try to do. The court can only make someone "Whole". So he would have to prove that he would not have suffered the expense of hiring the lawyer if the HOA had not acted so grievancily.

In a way that may be good news as not suing for all the expenses that could be associated with this case. The HOA should have never brought the case most likely, but now that they have, need to win their case. Not knowing how much money the HOA is out on this issue, it's hard to tell what the court would award. It may force the owner to remove fence or the HOA has to pay their own court cost plus the defendants as a worst case. (Hence why I always say "suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors...It will raise your dues or make for a special assessment. Sue when prepared to take that on)

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarrylJ on 08/15/2013 9:22 AM
Update: On February 2nd. the HOA agreed to suspend action on the fence for 30 to 45 days , and meet with the homeowner to try and work out a compromise. On February 26 the offending homeowner received a letter from the HOA stating that he must submit a written compromise that is accepted by the HOA or immediate action would be taken by the HOA. In speaking with the homeowner he said he felt that the HOA had breeched the prior agreement and had a lawyer send a letter to the HOA reaffirming his position that in his opinion, the covenant regarding fences had been abandoned. He also said he would screen the fence with landscaping.

I was at the February 2nd meeting and the HOA did agree to table and meet with the homeowner in 30 to 45 days. If what the homeowner said about receiving a letter on February 26th. is true, then the HOA did not honor that agreement.

Ignoring the actual issue of the fence and only looking at the agreement to try and compromise, based on what you provided, I see it this way:

1) HOA agreed to try and work out a compromise.

2) HOA made contact with the owner requesting what the owner thought would be a good compromise (granted, it would have been better if they had provided some suggestions).

3) Owner, via their attorney, responded that the covenant was unenforceable and that they would plant shrubs.

Based on what you provided, this doesn't sound like the owner was willing to compromise.

Allow me to explain. The response didn't say "what if I plant shrubs, perhaps we can meet to work out what shrubs would be agreeable to both side," it didn't say "I'm open to suggestions, what are the Assocaitions thoughts? Perhaps we can meet in person." The owner simply replied, through an attorney (which can be interpreted as a legal threat), that they still believe the Association no longer has the authority to enforce this covenant and they will plant shrubs.

It is likely that both sides (the owner and the Association) were on the defensive when this exchange went on. Both sides (well one side for sure) relied on their attorneys to help mediate the compromise. I personally don't think that they were the best mediators for this job.

Again, based on what you provided, I don't think the owner really wanted to compromise anymore than the Association, based on their response, wants to compromise. When neither side is willing to compromise, the only way to settle the issue is through the courts. When the courts get involved, it's more likely that neither side will be happy.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/15/2013 4:11 PM
Posted By DarrylJ on 08/15/2013 9:22 AM
Update: On February 2nd. the HOA agreed to suspend action on the fence for 30 to 45 days , and meet with the homeowner to try and work out a compromise. On February 26 the offending homeowner received a letter from the HOA stating that he must submit a written compromise that is accepted by the HOA or immediate action would be taken by the HOA. In speaking with the homeowner he said he felt that the HOA had breeched the prior agreement and had a lawyer send a letter to the HOA reaffirming his position that in his opinion, the covenant regarding fences had been abandoned. He also said he would screen the fence with landscaping.

I was at the February 2nd meeting and the HOA did agree to table and meet with the homeowner in 30 to 45 days. If what the homeowner said about receiving a letter on February 26th. is true, then the HOA did not honor that agreement.


Ignoring the actual issue of the fence and only looking at the agreement to try and compromise, based on what you provided, I see it this way:

1) HOA agreed to try and work out a compromise.

2) HOA made contact with the owner requesting what the owner thought would be a good compromise (granted, it would have been better if they had provided some suggestions).

3) Owner, via their attorney, responded that the covenant was unenforceable and that they would plant shrubs.

Based on what you provided, this doesn't sound like the owner was willing to compromise.

Allow me to explain. The response didn't say "what if I plant shrubs, perhaps we can meet to work out what shrubs would be agreeable to both side," it didn't say "I'm open to suggestions, what are the Assocaitions thoughts? Perhaps we can meet in person." The owner simply replied, through an attorney (which can be interpreted as a legal threat), that they still believe the Association no longer has the authority to enforce this covenant and they will plant shrubs.

It is likely that both sides (the owner and the Association) were on the defensive when this exchange went on. Both sides (well one side for sure) relied on their attorneys to help mediate the compromise. I personally don't think that they were the best mediators for this job.

Again, based on what you provided, I don't think the owner really wanted to compromise anymore than the Association, based on their response, wants to compromise. When neither side is willing to compromise, the only way to settle the issue is through the courts. When the courts get involved, it's more likely that neither side will be happy.


In my opinion, the HOA requested a compromise from the homeowner and scheduled a time frame for response. The homeowner and their attorney may have the opinion that the covenant is unenforceable so their baseline opinion would be that the fence remains. But they offered a compromise - to plant trees and shrubbery around the fence. The HOA then chose to renege on their agreed time table and never responded only later to involve their attorney and proceed with legal action. It sounds as if the HOA forfeited their right to enforce the covenant by implicitly complying with the homeowner's compromise.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I would also say that the homeowner's response via their attorney was a compromise was because if they still believed their fence was untouchable there would be absolutely no need to suggest shrubbery. And one can only assume the covenants are silent on shrubbery, so negotiating what plants to plant is a moot point.

One constant piece of advice to homeowners on this forum for homeowners in violation is to always respond to challenges - never ignore. When my neighborhood threatened legal action and demanded payments, my family attorney recommended pay under duress and proceed with negotiations. That appears what the homeowner did in this situation - responded to HOA in good faith and waited for their rebuttal.

And let's face it - had the homeowner responded without a lawyer and stated their fence were to stay and that they'll plant some shrubs too I guarantee most on this forum would have had a more negative impression of the homeowner. The response seems warranted when faced with perceived selective enforcement. Even the request for a "compromise" sounds passive aggressive at best.
JenniferB14 (Colorado)
Posts: 148
Posted:
This is an old post but pertinent to our association right now. Our association has openly and willingly violated our covenants for 25 years by allowing 3 rail post and dowel fences at the property line as well as other improvements. The association in their own words estimates about 25% of the 246 units have such fencing (over 60 units) and near 90% have other improvements in the setbacks (both approved and I approved). The allowance of these fences, landscaping and a few other items are at the property lines were also specified in the ARC documents and the rules of the association.

The covenant states that no improvements shall be allowed in the setbacks other than a single driveway to the residence.

Fast forward- there is a lawsuit related to that covenant for a specific improvement which had not been approvable in the community for 25 years. The association however brought up all the other improvements that the HAVE (albeit against the covenant) been approved in the setbacks as a defense to the allowance of this particular improvement (a secondary driveway) . Once they openly admitted it in legal court documents I think they realized they shot themselves in the foot and then decided they now needed to do something about it- mind you this lawsuit has sat in the courts for 4 years now and the HOA decided to enforce the covenant about 3.5 years into the lawsuit after continuing to approve fences and other items in the setbacks the entire 3.5 years of the lawsuit. That portion of our suit has been dropped and there were no rulings or penalties to the association.

We were building a barn with the plan to get horses after 7 years of living here. After the barn was complete we submitted for our fencing- same specs as the other 25% of the owners. The ARC denied our request and reasoned that at a board meeting just three days prior to our request, the BOD changed the rules and have now decided to enforce the covenant as written and as of that day, with zero written notice to the community (which is in violation of our policy, Bylaws, AND Declaration) fences will no longer be allowed. They have sort of enforced equally since then (the last year) however I know of at least 3 others who put up their fencing in the setbacks without approval. Ultimately my attorney advised us to install our fence due to latches and waiver, and because our horses had gotten out a couple of times which is super scary. So, we built our fence, which they knew about because the president, and secretary live right next to us. There was no notice, no cease and desist, nothing. It took over a month to build the fence and about 3 months later we receive a violation and threat for fines and/or legal action if the 1300 feet of fencing is not removed. Lmao. At this point we are still in the violation process so there has been no action-

Ironically, the BOD has now decided to try to amend the covenants to allow all of these previously allowed improvements. Now we are in the active stages of a community vote to allow these items to include the post and dowel fencing.

There are many people now who desire these improvements and are waiting for the outcome of these votes. If one or all of these votes fail, I am wondering what this community feels would be appropriate? Would a judge still likely declare an abandonment of this covenant due to the history of approvals over such a long period of time that a supermajority of the community has? That the association and owners have effectively changed this covenant by lack of enforcement? Does the HOA have any standing to now enforce this covenant, albeit without proper notice to residents regardless of the outcome of this vote? If the amendments pass then all is well, but if not does that truly give the association power to now deny all the same improvements the majority of the owners already have?

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JenniferB14 on 11/12/2022 10:41 AM
This is an old post but pertinent to our association right now. Our association has openly and willingly violated our covenants for 25 years [snip]
Jennifer, would you please start a new thread?

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here