Petition to Remove Board Members Started by Management

Wow that is quite a situation. Now if the MC can get enough owners to sign the petition under most documents I would think thye might have a chance to push this along.

Now was the Board elected? And why do they now feel the MC needs to be replaced? And why would the owners now side with the MC over the Board they elected to support the MC?

I would not be comfortable with an effort led by our MC to remove the property's Board. Question becomes who is in fac t running the property? The elected Board or the hired MC?

But if the MC has gathered enough good will and favor among the owners in numbers suffcient to push for a recall this might become a valid challenge to the elected Board.

Hopefully, you let us know how this works out.

Off the top of my head, your HOA should not be paying a PM to do what is essentially the job of the membership. I assume that your HOA also will pay for copies of the petition? Really?

So far as I know, In CA only HOA members may circulate petitions to recall a board. And only HOA members or the Board may call for a special meeting of the members. The PM has no such authority.

An earlier MC here tried to gin up support among some Owners who really liked the MC & PM that was being terminated. There was an mild uproar for a few weeks, but the MC certainly didn't circulate anything in writing.

Who is this HOA "employee"? What are his/her duties, etc.

Your documents should detail who can call a special meeting. In some cases, I would expect the property management company to be able to remove a board via the member vote - but for illegal or unethical behavior, not because they're losing a contract.

I don't think it's appropriate for management to do this. Besides being a conflict of interest, management companies work for the Association and do not dictate who it should and shouldn't hire. The Board of Directors provides instruction to the management company and the Board is elected by the Association members (the homeowners).

Personally, I would point this out to the homeowners - if they really want to keep this management company, they can say so. Otherwise, the Board should not only sack the property manager, it should have a serious discussion with the HOA employee (possibly sack him/her as well).

My initial blush is that only a voting member/owner in good standing could inititate any action. Covenants, Bylaws, Rules and Regulations apply to them only, not to anyone else. Thus if the PM is not a voting member/owner in good standing they cannot initiate a recall, same as they cannot vote.

Look at it this way. Could some stranger wander in off the street and start a recall?

What is there to prevent it? Is there a law that says the person circulating the petition (as opposed to signing it) must be an owner? Do we look at fingerprints on the papers to be certain that only the owners have touched the pages? If owners are uncomfortable with either the petition itself or the person who came knocking on their door, their remedy is to decline to sign. If the owners are in favor of the petition, what possible difference could it make as to who initiated and/or circulated the petition?

There seems to be a difference between can they do this and is it legal to do this.

I agree with the statement, "What is going to stop them?" If the MC handles the mangement of some individual units as the OPP suggests they can have these owners take action on his petition.

And while it does not sit well with me seems the MC has let the Board know they plan to do everything in their power to force their way onto this property. I doubt there are any restricions as to who circulates the petition as long as you have the required number of owners.

Now how does the Board respond? If they in fact have a replacement MC they should go forward with the switch. Allowing this to stall gives the MC time to push their agenda further.

Perhaps I would contact the owners every one of them and sugges that the best interests of the property would be served if he MC was replaced and here is why. And that he current MC should have no role in who serves the property but rather tha should be left up to the lected members of the Board. Period.

No if I were the President on that Board my foot would be stuck in someone's ________.

The flaw in the management company's logic is that the election could happen, the board could be replaced, and the new board could conclude, as did the previous board, that the management company is not serving the needs of the association. So for all their effort, nothing would really have changed for the management company.

Yes, RT4, my interpretation is that legally, only homeowners can circulate petitions. I'm not connected with the legal profession, though.

I'm not sure what this sentence means, RT4: "Since the board meeting I initially wrote about the PM was removed." Is the PM who authored and circulated the petition gone?

I would love to read either in property documents or state law where it is defined WHO can circulate a petition and who cannot. I doubt this was written in any way to control who pushes for the recall bu rather if those signing are property owners.

And I would seriously doubt many MC contracts cover or detail what role the MC can or might play in Board elections. I have never heard of such a thing and wonder why it might be covered in a contract.

Most documents require a signed petition by ___% of unit or property owners to begin the recall process NOT restricting who actually begins the process or circulates the paperwork.

My interpretation of the law is that anyone could circulate the petition but only members can sign it and only a member can apply the petition.

Also consider the ramifications if this were to be deemed that only a member could circulate a petition by law. Neighborhood volunteers would be reduced to a mere fraction. Want a petition signed? Forget having your wife or children or anyone else who lives in the house circulate the petition. The name on the deed is all that matters.

If most of the people in your HOA do not like the management company, I'd hope they wouldn't sign the petition and all this would be moot.

That aside, it all stinks to me. PM is lucky I'm not on that board.

What I was thinking is that if you could just go into an HOA where you didn't live and recall the board members that some of the folks who post here would have some of our hind-ends. LOL.

I really don't think this has any substance whatsoever unless the homeowners allow it.

In recall elections of state officials, the ballot contains the name of the incumbent office holder and the names of those who wish to replace him. Whoever gets the majority wins and if the winner is the incumbent then he is not recalled. There is just one vote taken as the issue of whether to hold a recall election was decided by filing a petition to do so.

I would assume that your HOA's recall election will follow a similar pattern. Filing the petition with sufficient signatures means there will be a recall election and the incumbent board members will be candidates on equal footing with the challengers.

Back around 1988 we had a similar situation with the governor of Arizona. Citizens had filed petitions to have a recall election to get rid of him but the legislature impeached and convicted the governor before the election could be held. The secretary of state became governor. The state supreme court ruled that if the target of the recall was no longer in office that the recall election could not be held.

Dave,

Define "made by a member."

I would think that an argument could be made that a petition signed by x% of the membership would be a petition made by a member (in fact, it was made by multiple members).

I don't believe it's who started the petition or who circulated the petition. It's simply an issue does the petition have enough valid signatures to require action by the Association.

In the issue from the original poster, I think that once the Board issues statements explaining what they know about the petition that they likely won't be recalled. What better example that their is new and open leadership than to publish in the newsletter that:

The Board received a petition initiated by our previous (outgoing) property manager. The Board believes that this petition was initiated because of the Boards decision to change management companies. However, since the petition meets the requirements outlined in our governing documents to hold a recall election, the Association is required to expend the funds necessary to hold a general membership meeting, discuss the issue and, if a quorum is present, to hold a recall election. If the recall is successful, then an election for new directors will be held immediately following the announcement of the recall results.

RT4

I was so startled by your post that I did not take time to read the other responses. I'm sure others have already said this. GET RID of that property manager. Our Bylaws forbid the Board from delegating certain things to the manager, and one of them is anything which needs a vote of the membership. A Board member CANNOT be recalled by anyone but a majority of the membership ) Not even the entire Board has the power to remove another Board member with extreme exceptions (like committing a felony.) How many units are in your association? 5% of the owners can call a meeting and may vote out the whole board, or replace a director (check your bylaws) But the manager is not the decider here. I hope you have taken steps to remove them by now.

I have seen crooked managers pull all kinds of shenanigans to manipulate a naive board into not seating a knowledgeable member of the association, I have seen them rig elections, and it was always because the manager was up to no good. Yours may just be arrogant and ignorant of the law but that is NOT one you want working for you.

I see you are in California, are you by any chance in the Bay area? If you are I know some pro-bono attorneys who can help you with this dillemma, (affilliated with a great HOA education and protection Non-profit.) Unfortunately, if the lawyer you use was recruited by this P.M. and is allowing this to happen (in fact if they are not actively stepping in to protect you from this behavior) they are not to be trusted IMO. And I speak from experience here.

I'm going to stop now before I get into RANT...I just read the posting rules and I'm not allowed to name business names.....But surely no administrator can object if I drop the name of a non-profit:
California Center for Homeowner Association Law. They have been working for years to educate homeowners and Directors about just this type of thing... There is help out there. Get some.

If you are still dealing with this problem I will put you in touch with help myself. This type of thing makes me so mad.....