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WilliamW9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our POA landscape guidelines dictate that all landscape lights are to be wholly or partially concealed. The problem is that the builder (the neighborhood is new) includes minimal landscape plants and numerous homeowners are filling their small lots up with artificial decorative items and solar lights instead of plants material. We have instituted limits on the size and number of the non vegetation decorative items, but the solar lights are out of control.
Most everyone is using them as a decorative item and not concealing them in and around the their sparse plant material. They ring the lights around the trees, the front edge of the planting beds, along fences, around air conditioning units and walkways. Most lights are only 24 inches apart. At night many of the yards look like airport landing strips!
Has anyone dealt with a similar problem? I have made two suggestions and neither has gained much traction with the Board of Directors. One suggestion was to permit only the low voltage electric lights and eliminate solar lights completely as they are ineffective for security lighting and do not high light the landscape with their poor wattage. The second suggestion was to categorize the solar lights as decorative along with the ceramic rabbits, lighthouses, fountains and other sculptures, which are limited in size and numbers. Removing them as landscape lights since they can't really operate when wholly or partially hidden in the plant material.

Need help. Thanks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think you may be in the minority with your opinion of landscaping lighting. It may be an issue of personal taste than an actual rule to be enforced. Solar lights can come in handy outside of being a decorative item. We used them here recently for emergency lighting when the power went out for a week after the F5 tornadoes.

You can make suggestions to have these as violations but my feelings are your going to get voted down each time. Considering the majority of people who actually own them seem to be in the majority. If they are like me, I have run too many over with my vehicle or had critters eat them, that the fad kind of wore out. I do have a crooked walk way so they do help with people seeing where they are going.

Former HOA President
WilliamW9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks for your reply and insightful comments, Mellisa. Your points are well taken. However, the issue we are facing is that the CCR states that all landscaping lights must be wholly or partially concealed by the plant material they are intended to hi light. What is happening, though, is the homeowners are planting them in the open as decorative items along with ceramic statuary of all types instead of installing trees, shrubs or flowers. Some of the yards are looking like miniature golf courses!

At the root of the problem is that there were two different builders in the development when it started just prior to the housing collapse. One builder included a landscape package that encompass all four sides of the house and raised island beds in the yards. That builder is no longer in the development and the second builder only includes a half dozen two gallon sized plants in the front of the house. The landscaping is sparse to say the least.

The new homeowner has no plants to hide the solar lights behind and instead of installing additional plant material they plant solar lights 24 inches apart, interspersed with their ceramic bunnies, turtles, etc. This has created a violation situation that we must get under control.
The BOD agrees with violations, but we would really like to get a better guideline for the homeowners and the Architectural Review Committee to work by, such as limiting the number of solar lights. I was hoping another ARC has dealt with the issue and I could learn from how they handled it with additional guidelines.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Sounds like you have two issues - solar lights and decorative objects.

You should first check to see if your State has any laws on solar energy devices, as your governing documents cannot be in conflict with them.

Second, you need to make sure that this isn't an issue of different personal tastes vs. violations of guidelines/etc.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We have a minor issue in our HOA.

Several owners have lined their driveways, walkways, etc. with small solar charged lights. Any lights are an issue to some. The fact that the lights are different colors are an issue to some. The fact that the placement varies is an issue to some.

As we are kind of laid back, we will sit on it until someone registers a formal complaint but eventually we may have to deal with it. When we do, I expect we will not be able to make all happy and often that is the way it is. One cannot please all so the issue hten becomes how far someone unhappy will take it.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
I don't understand why plants need lights. It's not like they're going to read the newspaper all night. The trees in my front yard seem to survive quite well without being lit up.

Lights are for people and should be placed where the lights will illuminate driveways and sidewalks. Low-powered solar lights do a good job of that without requiring wiring and they lend a certain elegance in an otherwise dark neighborhood.

Maybe the problem is that the OP is assuming that all outdoor lights are "landscape lights" and that only landscape lights are permitted. The way I read it is that if lights are not in the planters then they are not landscape lights and do not need to be hidden behind plants. I really think both the declarant and the OP have way too much time on their hands because I keep coming back to the question, "So what?"

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
William,

For landscaping rules, I'd think whether or not lighting is solar powered is irrelevant to the fact that plant material must surround the lighting fixture. While the are NC laws that prevent discrimination against home solar panels, clotheslines and other "green" fixtures, I'm not sold $30 garden lights rise to that level.

However, I can easily see a broader discussion of what constitutes "out of control" solar lighting in your future.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
William,

For landscaping rules, I'd think whether or not lighting is solar powered is irrelevant to the fact that plant material must surround the lighting fixture. While the are NC laws that prevent discrimination against home solar panels, clotheslines and other "green" fixtures, I'm not sold $30 garden lights rise to that level.

However, I can easily see a broader discussion of what constitutes "out of control" solar lighting in your future.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
The OP did mention that the development had minimal street lights.
Perhaps the Association should invest in adding additional street lighting. This would minimize the need for pathway lights.
WilliamW9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The difference between solar and low voltage lighting is that the solar lights are very mobile and can be replanted anywhere very easily. After the homeowner has received approval for the lighting from the ARC they can easily add to the total number and relocate them at will. That is not so easy with the low voltage lights.
With regards to them being used for security purposes is almost laughable. The lumen or wattage output that they emit is so low they are nearly useless for that purpose unless spaced extremely close together. And all of the homes have exterior porch and garage lighting as well as adequate street lights.
In this neighborhood they are definitely being used as as a decorative landscape feature, not for lighting. When you place 15 of these 18 inch tall lights across the front of of a 20 foot planted bed containing 3 two gallon plants, it is unsightly and no longer considered lighting. Same is true when you circle them spaced 18 inches apart around a small tree with a 3 inch trunk in the front yard.
We did address the over the top use of non organic plants (yard art) in limiting the number and size of the statues, bird baths, bunnies, turtles, bird houses, Sheppard hooks, two foot tall light houses, etc. This was done as they also were out of control with too many being installed in the landscaping. Again, the homeowner violated the CCR as they did not submit for approval by the ARC prior to installing the decorations.
To date we have been able to control the solar lights by them being classified as plant bed lighting. Otherwise we have to reclassify them as yard art decorative items and create new guidelines for that specific category. Unfortunately, a number of the homeowners have chosen to ignore the violation warning letters that have been sent on two separate occasions starting last summer. This week the violation letters go out with the deadline date for compliance or the $50 per week fine will begin until the violation is corrected. They do have the option to come before the ARC for a hearing and plead their case.
Someone also mentioned the NC law as it relates to solar power. We have guidelines for solar panels in the neighborhood as they are permitted, but garden lights are not solar power and covered by any laws. Ans we are not prohibiting them, only requiring them to be out of view.
As most understand you cannot dictate taste in a written document, but that is why exterior changes are reviewed by a Architectural Review Committee.
I'm still hoping to find someone that has had the same over the top use of these lights in their neighborhood as a decorative feature and how they controlled them better than the way we are. I have suggested that we only permit low voltage lights and ban the solar lights. That did not gain traction with the BOD!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Like I said, someone has way too much time on their hands.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
William

What type layout is your POA? Standalone homes on individual lots is one issue. Adjoining townhomes/units could for the sake of continuity be another issue.

Thanks

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
OOPS

Landscaping could also matter meaning does your association do all landscaping or do individuals do their own? Our HOA does all exterior landscaping (standalone homes) and we have had some complaints from our landscaper about having to trim around some of the solar lights versus mowing in one pass.

I think he sees it as a way to raise our costs.....LOL
WilliamW9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 4
Posted:
There are no town homes, condos or anything other than single homes. Landscaping maintenance is performed by the homeowner except the common areas, such as entrances and the clubhouse area.

A question was posed if the issue centered around continuity due to connected homes. It is not. However, the issue is similar, just not specific to that reason. The CCR states that the neighborhood is to be harmonious and landscaping is to be kept similar to the adjoining properties. This is what guides the ARC in their decisions as they approve requests.

With respects to having too much time on my hands over these lights, my goal and the ARC is to protect the individual homeowners property values. Having a small home with only a $100 worth of landscaping next door to $400,000 investment and then filling the barren yard up with 50 solar light soldiers and ceramic yard art of every imaginable shape and size is not in keeping with protecting the property values! I wish I had a photo, which would certainly answer many questions.

The ARC approves or disapproves all exterior colors of siding and trim including storm door additions, driveway coatings, mulch types, all exterior lighting, etc. We are extremely detailed in what we do and control. The solar lights are not just a pain in the neck for someone with too much time on his hands. Even the builder has to submit exterior elevation looks for new style of homes they want to build.

Just looking to see if there are other solutions out there than what we already have in place.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
William

Thanks for the answers.

As you have said the ARC/BOD has sent violation notices to those they consider having gone over the edge and that is how to deal with it.

One of the bottom lines for an association always been establishing "their" standards which can vary widely from association to association. As long as the majority of an association agrees then that is the way it is. Others need not agree especially those that do not live there.

Where I was brought up, one common yard fixture was an old bathtub with one end and the legs cut off. The tub was then turned on end, painted white, with a Virgin Mary statue standing inside it. A mini Virgin Mary shrine.

I recently saw some old tires laid on the ground, painted white, and used as planters...now that was "classy".......LOL

De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am still not over the "Plastic flower" plantings of one tenant...I thought it was a tribute to a dead child...It wasn't...She just didn't like keeping up with live flowers. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...or the opinions of your fellow HOA members...

Former HOA President
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
William,

We have had similar concerns in our 6,400 property Assn. We have no srtreet lights and try to minimize light polution. Most of our properties have "natural", volunteer "landscaping". We use this and it works pretty well:

C. EXTERIOR LIGHTS:
All exterior light sources must be shielded and not regarded as offensive to surrounding properties.
When exterior lighting is determined to be objectionable, the ASC will review the condition on a case-by-case basis and determine appropriate corrective measures, if any; e.g., reducing wattage or replacing fixtures. See Section III-H8.

Noxious Activities Prohibited. No illegal, noxious or offensive activities shall be carried out or conducted upon any lot, nor shall anything be done within the properties which is or could become an unreasonable annoyance or nuisance to neighboring property owners. C&RS Article VIII, Section 1(c).

Paul T
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
In our high rise community, all of the ground lights, path lights, bollards, etc. are in our common areas.

But our CC&Rs do state that additional lighting (there's a wall sconce for each) on our individual balconies should not offend others in any way--or words to that effect. The wording is similar to that which Paul cites.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WilliamW9 on 02/03/2013 1:32 PM
my goal and the ARC is to protect the individual homeowners property values.

Of course! Why everyone knows that harassing your neighbors over the pettiest of all issues will somehow increase property values even though there is no evidence that it does. What it does do is gives your neighbors incentive to dump their homes onto the market at fire-sale prices, lowering your own property values.

Something like only twenty percent of the population lives in HOA's. The other 80 percent are not clamoring to get into one. I suspect at least half of those in an HOA would not buy into another one if they could avoid it. In the eyes of most of the population, your home is worth zero because it is in an HOA. People hate HOA's precisely because of the nonsense you write about here. When we bought our latest home about 20 months ago, I informed the realtor that there were two deal-killers: HOA's and swimming pools. We bought a home with neither association nor pool and we are just fine with it.

What you are doing is perpetuating the stereotype that HOA's are the home turf of the busibodies who mind everyone's business but their own.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 02/05/2013 12:14 AM
Posted By WilliamW9 on 02/03/2013 1:32 PM
my goal and the ARC is to protect the individual homeowners property values.


Of course! Why everyone knows that harassing your neighbors over the pettiest of all issues will somehow increase property values even though there is no evidence that it does. What it does do is gives your neighbors incentive to dump their homes onto the market at fire-sale prices, lowering your own property values.

Something like only twenty percent of the population lives in HOA's. The other 80 percent are not clamoring to get into one. I suspect at least half of those in an HOA would not buy into another one if they could avoid it. In the eyes of most of the population, your home is worth zero because it is in an HOA. People hate HOA's precisely because of the nonsense you write about here. When we bought our latest home about 20 months ago, I informed the realtor that there were two deal-killers: HOA's and swimming pools. We bought a home with neither association nor pool and we are just fine with it.

What you are doing is perpetuating the stereotype that HOA's are the home turf of the busibodies who mind everyone's business but their own.


Buying into an HOA is voluntary. In our case members complained about their neighbor's "airport runway lights" that served no purpose. The Assn did not make a night time "sweep" looking for them.

Paul T
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Same here, Paul. Been on the board 6 years, and only one complaint about lights. These were actually inside a 14th floor unit and were strung above four three-ft. wide windows. Their window covering, as in most of our living areas are left open so we can enjoy our views. The lights were red & orange and set to do two "tricks." One: they flashed off and on. Two: they repeatedly "danced" across the windows starting at one end and finishing at the other. They were very visible from the living rooms--about 40 feet away- of about 15 units in our other tower. A few of those neighbors complained, saying the lights were very distracting, annoying and gave the unit the appearance of a, uh, house of ill repute. Well, they didn't break the balcony rule, but, in our CC&Rs, our board was able to define them as a "nuisance" that bothered people. The owner was sent a courtesy letter, and the lights went out except for the winter holiday season.

We do permit lights on balconies from Thanksgiving to Jan. 10. Management sent a courtesy letter last week (!) asking one owner to remove the holiday lights, which still lit up every night, from his balcony rail. The lights came down yesterday.
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
I live on a side street where the builders never put in street lights and it gets dark back there. Several of us have solar path lights, mostly for our visitors to maneuver the sidewalk. Our HOA's rule is that your lights can't interfere with the landscapers' work.

Some people work really hard on their yards and have decorations that don't appeal to me. But I don't have to live in their homes (and we are in townhouses), so I don't worry about it. If someone is tacky, they will be tacky no matter what rules you have to curb it. They will find a way.

And I'd much rather have someone with a light-up yard gnome under a tree living next door than I would, for example, someone who makes meth or runs a brothel.

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