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DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Curious to know how everyone addresses units that are behind on their dues and/or assessments. We have a unit that is (willfully) behind on their annual dues and also has an unpaid assessment for a repeat violation.

What seems to be the consensus and what are the realistic options? Lien or...??
Are liens even effective in any sense if you don't then pursue foreclosure?

Thanks,
Dave
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Be careful...Fines can't be used as the basis for liens or foreclosures in many states. Check yours first. Liens are the best way to go than lawsuits. Have a policy of when to lien. We had it at 6 months behind then we liened. foreclosures would be consider after a year but not always pursued. Foreclosures are stop the bleeding measures not a profit maker. Plus the HOA does NOT want to own the home.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Dave,

An owner who willfully refuses to pay his assessments is a sitting duck. I am assuming he has the means to pay but for whatever reason feels he should not have to.

Foreclosure is too often a dead-end for an HOA. In most states a mortgage lien takes precedence over the HOA lien, so unless there is no mortgage or a substantial equity in the home, the HOA will take nothing in a foreclosure.

If your state law permits it, if you know where to find the owner, and if you have reason to believe that the owner has the means to pay, then your best course of action may be to file a civil suit to recover the unpaid assessments.

Owners just assume that liens and foreclosure are the only options for the association, but your HOA can sue in civil court just like any other debt. In my state, the HOA is required to obtain a money judgment before it can pursue a foreclosure. Some barstool lawyer may have convinced this owner that he is untouchable because he has no equity in his home.

Note that to obtain a money judgment, the owner will have to served personally, otherwise the lawsuit goes nowhere. If the owner is not the occupant of the home, track him down before hiring the lawyer. Likewise, if the owner is unlikely to have the means to pay it is a waste of your money to sue.

JH3 (Maryland)
Posts: 67
Posted:
Every state is different. Most HOAs here have a lien on the home before the property is sold to the first owner after construction, this lien stays with the property regardless. Your governing documents will state if there is a continuing lien on the property, if there is.

Like others have said, fines cannot be used as a basis for collecting past-due assessments, and vice-versa. But you can obtain a judgement against the homeowner to recover unpaid assessments, late fees (if any), and legal costs. This judgement can then be used to garnish wages if necessary.

Foreclosing on a lien should be a last resort, as it doesnt guarantee the HOA will collect anything. There is proposed federal law to change this, and place the HOA as 1st in line (and in some states they already are), but its only proposed at this time.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Sometimes the Association just needs to show that it means business.

We had two lots that were way behind when I became Treasurer last year.

They had already received several notices.

I started by sending a letter with details of the ledger informing them payment was needed by x date

Next letter informed them the issue to escalate the collection process was on the agenda and invited them to attend the meeting and gave them the option to:
a) pay what they owe + late charges in full
b) pay what they owed and the rest of the current year - in return the Association would waive unpaid late charges.

Next letter was a courtesy letter sent a week before the Board meeting reminding them that the issue was on the agenda and what their options were to stop the process from escalating.

We never had to go further than that last letter as both agreed to pay what was owed plus the remainder of the current year. In return we waived approx $500 in charges on both lots.

Had they chosen to ignore, we would have sent the issue to the attorney and they would have incurred legal costs along with the late charges.
JH3 (Maryland)
Posts: 67
Posted:
>Next letter informed them the issue to escalate the collection process was on the agenda
I hope you're not actually putting a homeowner's account discussion on the actual agenda. This is an executive session item as it is confidential information.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
JH

It was all kept confidential. The specific information of who the owner is or the Lot number is not listed on the agenda. Additionally, it is also not mentioned in the discussion. Had the member attended the meeting we would have entered executive session. However, in both cases, everything between the member and the Treasurer was done in writing. The following shows what we did.

The agenda simply states: Escalation of collection process for delinquent account.

The minutes simply said: Treasurer explained that there was one account sufficiently delinquent to be forwarded to attorney. The member desired to exercise the option offered by the Board of paying all past due and the remainder of the current year in full and the board would waive all unpaid charges related to the collection process, but requested additional time. [name] motioned that the board approve the additional time until July 31, 2012. If paid in full, the Association will waive unpaid charges. If not paid in full at that date, all charges will remain intact. [name] seconded and the motion passed unanimously. The Treasurer will inform the member.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/29/2013 8:18 PM
Dave,

An owner who willfully refuses to pay his assessments is a sitting duck. I am assuming he has the means to pay but for whatever reason feels he should not have to.


We've had difficulty with this owner (also the resident) every year. Usually a couple/few months late.
He's one of those who claims he knew nothing about the association when he moved in and that he shouldn't be part of it. Interestingly enough, he bought his home from the developer. As an aside, his house really shouldn't be in the association. We have a small neighborhood, and the developer basically turned his Back 40 into a subdivision, integrating his own, older home into the mix, even though it only backs up to one of the units in the HOA and isn't on one of our streets. Regardless, and despite knowing that it's possible to change the Master Deed to withdraw his home, he's declined to do anything to that end. So it appears that he's just decided to not participate. Dues for CY2012 haven't been paid, and notices for 2013 are about to go out. We're under $300/year, so it's not a ton of $, though the amount is irrelevant.

That being just the current example, I wonder if we should adopt a formal (or informal) process to follow so that we don't have to discuss and decide when these things come up. Just move from step A to B to C as time goes on.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JH3 on 01/30/2013 1:19 AM
I hope you're not actually putting a homeowner's account discussion on the actual agenda. This is an executive session item as it is confidential information.

That's not the way it works here. By law, only certain matters may be discussed in executive session and owner delinquencies are not on the short list, although if litigation is on the horizon the board may choose to discuss it in executive sessions.

I take the position that other owners and I entered into an agreement. I have the right to know if one of them is not living up to the terms of the agreement and he has no right to withhold his nonperformance from me or any other owner. If he does not want his delinquency discussed at an open board meeting then he knows what to do.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/30/2013 6:14 AM
Posted By JH3 on 01/30/2013 1:19 AM
I hope you're not actually putting a homeowner's account discussion on the actual agenda. This is an executive session item as it is confidential information.


That's not the way it works here. By law, only certain matters may be discussed in executive session and owner delinquencies are not on the short list, although if litigation is on the horizon the board may choose to discuss it in executive sessions.

I take the position that other owners and I entered into an agreement. I have the right to know if one of them is not living up to the terms of the agreement and he has no right to withhold his nonperformance from me or any other owner. If he does not want his delinquency discussed at an open board meeting then he knows what to do.


When we discuss delinquencies in an open meeting, we always use account numbers, never names or addresses (without that, they don't know who has account #12345). As long as I've been on the board, we've never discussed them in executive session (we have so many, that would take up the entire regular meeting and then people might accuse us of making other decisions in secret). 99% of the time, people either don't show up anyway or leave after the resident forum, so it's never been a problem. And if they do stick around, homeowners might not know which homeowner we're talking about, but they do know if we approve filing a lien or a lawsuit.

And as long as they know we aren't letting delinquent homeowners slide, I believe that's all they need to know - if they're that curious, they can go to the assessor's office and find out if any house has a lien filed against it and go on from there. We don't use names because if we discuss specific dollars and cents, the word gets out and the information is WRONG, we might be in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and I, for one, don't want to mess around with the Feds because those penalties can be really hefty.

I agree you have a right to know if there are homeowners who aren't fulfilling their legal obligation to share in the HOA's expenses, but as a practical matter, what will you do if you learn Mr. Smith, Mrs. Jones and the Abbots aren't paying? Once upon a time, it was considered bad form not to pay one's bills, but these days, people come up with any excuse not to pay, so going over to their house and yelling at them for not paying won't do you any good (in fact, as high-strung as people are these days, you'll get a good cussing out at best or your head shot off, at worst). If these people have financial problems because of job loss, major medical illness, they should tell the Board that so a payment plan can be worked out - otherwise, that's none of your business either.

Finally, if you want to know who's not paying, why not go all out and disclose everyone who IS paying? All's fair in love and money, after all, but do you really want someone to know your personal financial business? I don't, but that's jus tme.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Now that I commented on Larry's statement, I'll address the question that prompted this conversation!

Once you know what your options are (lien/foreclosure or lawsuit), you really have to look at each case individually and see what you can do. I'm treasurer of my association (townhouse and we pay monthly assessments), and we usually start by considering if the homeowner has contacted our property manager's collections department and explained what's going on. If they're paying extra every month to catch up or negotiate a payment plan, we will work with them. We tell them they can't drag things out forever (we aren't a bank, after all), but as long as they keep us in the loop and make an effort to pay something, we'll keep working with them.

After 60 days, we send the account to our attorney (after accellerating unpaid assessments that become immediately due at that point). The attorney can work out a payment plan (the board has to approve it), but we updated our policy two years ago to insist on automatic deductions via a bank account or credit card. If they make a promise to pay, but renege, the plan is cancelled and off to court we go. It's the homeowner's responsibility to let us know if their circumstances have changed.

There are pros and cons to each step, but generally, you want to save foreclosure for last. It's expensive, time-consuming and most of the time, you won't get any money because, as others have pointed out, the mortgage company's lien is superior to the HOA, unless you're in a state with a superlien statute. The best thing about a foreclosure is that it gets rid of the deadbeat (if they're not paying anyway, why should they stay there and continue to receive services?) The sooner they're gone, the sooner the house can be sold to someone who will pay.

Ditto for liens - they have to be satisfied before the house changes hands, but if the mortgage company swoops in and does a foreclosure, your lien will usually be washed away when they do sell, because the mortgage company is only interested in getting as much as they can, and the selling price usually isn't enough to make them and the HOA happy (and they don't care if the HOA gets anything).

A personal judgement can follow a homeowner for the next 10 years and damage his/her credit, but unless he/she/they have assets you can grab to pay off the debt (or do a wage garnishment), the judgement becomes little more than a piece of paper.

Bottom line - talk with your attorney about your options and have him/her make a recommendation. You may also want to do a title search (your attorney can do this, but it may cost less if your management company does it)to get some idea on how much equity is in the house - that can help determine if foreclosure is viable. In some cases, filing a lien might be all you can do (e.g. if the owner dies and the house is in limbo because he/she didn't leave a will and no one's pursuing anything in probate court)

Regarding fines for CCR violations - I wouldn't foreclose for unpaid fines and in most states, you can't. Elsewhere on this site, I thought someone (TimB4?) suggest that CCR violations be disclosed in a resale package. I would think that would put a potential buyer on notice that he/she will be responsible for the violation if it isn't fixed and that could be used as a tool to persuade the homeowner to finally bring the item into compliance.

I just wish we could levy fines in this state - Indiana case law states HOAs can assess fines because they aren't considered government agencies (don't remember the case, but it's somewhere in the Internet universe if you Google it). Some HOAs do it anyway and get away with it, but if someone ever sues over it, there could be a problem


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
Our association is supposed to be cracking down on unpaid assessments this year. Our board meeting is next week. We have homeowners who haven't paid for years, and just sending them to collections isn't cutting it. I was just checking to make sure the owner of a new rental was up-to-date today and I saw another homeowner who wrote a bad check in December of 2010, and that was the last time she even attempted to pay her assessments. The free ride has to end, mostly because we budgeted our income for this year with 12% not paying and right now we're closer to 25%. I don't know why it was allowed to get this bad, but I'm responsible for our association's financial health now, and things have to change.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What HOA/people overlook when they want to sue for unpaid assessments are a few realities. The first and foremost that a lawsuit judgement is NOT money in the pocket. It is a judgement issued by the court much like a IOU. This also means unless your HOA goes on to lien anyways, the person can sell their home and never pay. Who is going to remember after 7 years that a court judgement is out there against a former owner? Those type judgements have to be renewed to keep active. Regular liens the owner can't sell the home until they pay it off.

A lawsuit has limitations. It isn't continous. Meaning the time period between filing the lawsuit and going to court the owner may not pay their dues. That period of time may NOT be included in the lawsuit your suing for. A regular lien the amount owed continues to collect and adds on the cost for the legal filing/costs.

Finally I would like to include the fact that a HOA does NOT have any member's social security number. Meaning that the lawsuit won't hurt their credit score as it's probably not going to get reported to the credit agencies. It also effects the ability to collect by garnishing wages. The court paperwork does NOT require anyone putting down their social security number. How would one then go about collecting it legally? A lien just needs the owners name and their HOA address. No need to collect additional data.

These are just my concerns when one files a lawsuit to collect fees. Why go through the whole lawsuit just to get a lien? I'd skip that step and just go for the lien. It is time consuming method but it has the most bite and ability to collect versus other options.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2013 12:17 PM
What HOA/people overlook when they want to sue for unpaid assessments are a few realities. The first and foremost that a lawsuit judgement is NOT money in the pocket. It is a judgement issued by the court much like a IOU. This also means unless your HOA goes on to lien anyways, the person can sell their home and never pay. Who is going to remember after 7 years that a court judgement is out there against a former owner? Those type judgements have to be renewed to keep active. Regular liens the owner can't sell the home until they pay it off.

A lawsuit has limitations. It isn't continous. Meaning the time period between filing the lawsuit and going to court the owner may not pay their dues. That period of time may NOT be included in the lawsuit your suing for. A regular lien the amount owed continues to collect and adds on the cost for the legal filing/costs.

Finally I would like to include the fact that a HOA does NOT have any member's social security number. Meaning that the lawsuit won't hurt their credit score as it's probably not going to get reported to the credit agencies. It also effects the ability to collect by garnishing wages. The court paperwork does NOT require anyone putting down their social security number. How would one then go about collecting it legally? A lien just needs the owners name and their HOA address. No need to collect additional data.

These are just my concerns when one files a lawsuit to collect fees. Why go through the whole lawsuit just to get a lien? I'd skip that step and just go for the lien. It is time consuming method but it has the most bite and ability to collect versus other options.

Speaking of SSNs, I read some time ago that HOAs need to be aware of the Federal Trade Commission's Red Flag rules. In November 2007, the FTC issued a set of regulations that require certain entities (such as banks, retailers and credit card companies) develop and implement written identity theft prevention and detection programs to protect consumers from identity theft. There was some protests by certain organizations and after some wrangling, the regulations took effect on Dec. 31, 2010.

Since the rules apply to creditors, creditors are defined as people who (1) regularly extends, renews, or continues credit, (2) regularly arranges for the extension, renewal, or continuation of credit or (3) any assignee of an original creditor who participates in the decision to extend, renew, or continue credit. Put another way, this could apply to HOAs or property managers

Put another way, this can apply to HOAs or property managers if they accept installation payments for regular or special assessments, or if there's a reasonable chance certain information (like SSNs) can be put at risk for identity theft. Google HAs and FTC Red Flag rules for more informationon the subject.

In any event, we amended our collection policy two years ago to require certain information up front if the homeowner requests a payment plan. This way, if we know there are other assets out there, we may be able to grab them. Your attorney might also get more information via a pro-sup hearing (after the homeowner loses the initial lawsuit, there's another hearing to hash out the details of how he/she/they will pay the money back, which includes an accounting of what's owned and owed and how much).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LauraR5 on 01/30/2013 11:28 AM

I don't know why it was allowed to get this bad,

Typically it gets that bad because, in general, no one wants to be the bad guy.
It's tough to tell your neighbor to pay up or else (I know, I literately had to do this to my neighbor).

The best I can suggest is be as flexable as you can.
Waive late charges if possible (after all the goal is to collect the assessments) and if there are shows of good faith from the account holder.

One thing I did discover that was helpful was to be consistent and give details of the account.

Quote:
Posted By LauraR5 on 01/30/2013 11:28 AM

but I'm responsible for our association's financial health now, and things have to change.

Yes and no.

As Treasurer, you are responsible for tracking payments and paying the bills and bring appropriate matters to the boards attention.

The Board as a whole is responsible for the financial health by making the decisions as a group on how to address delinquencies.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2013 12:17 PM
What HOA/people overlook when they want to sue for unpaid assessments are a few realities. The first and foremost that a lawsuit judgement is NOT money in the pocket. It is a judgement issued by the court much like a IOU. This also means unless your HOA goes on to lien anyways, the person can sell their home and never pay. Who is going to remember after 7 years that a court judgement is out there against a former owner? Those type judgements have to be renewed to keep active. Regular liens the owner can't sell the home until they pay it off.

A lawsuit has limitations. It isn't continous. Meaning the time period between filing the lawsuit and going to court the owner may not pay their dues. That period of time may NOT be included in the lawsuit your suing for. A regular lien the amount owed continues to collect and adds on the cost for the legal filing/costs.

Finally I would like to include the fact that a HOA does NOT have any member's social security number. Meaning that the lawsuit won't hurt their credit score as it's probably not going to get reported to the credit agencies. It also effects the ability to collect by garnishing wages. The court paperwork does NOT require anyone putting down their social security number. How would one then go about collecting it legally? A lien just needs the owners name and their HOA address. No need to collect additional data.

These are just my concerns when one files a lawsuit to collect fees. Why go through the whole lawsuit just to get a lien? I'd skip that step and just go for the lien. It is time consuming method but it has the most bite and ability to collect versus other options.

This is why you should only sue people you can find and who have the means to pay.

Once you have a judgment, you can get an order of garnishment to attach wages and some other payments and/or you can get a writ of execution where the sheriff shows up and starts selling off the debtor's stuff.

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