Board Member Installed Washer/Dryer without Board/HOA Approval and now wants HOA to pay for Mold/Damage

A first floor unit owner installed a washer/dryer in his unit without Board approval or even knowledge (or other homeowners) a few years ago. All other homeowners have to pay $2/load for use of the common area washers.

Our CC&Rs strictly prohibit individual unit owners to install washer/dryers as we have an old building and our pipes have not been tested to show they can accomodate this.

There was an external water leak into his living room a few months back. They have tested for mold and it has come back positive and he wants the HOA to pay for all the mold/remediation in the living room (where the leak occurred), as well as the bedroom (where the washer/dryer is installed) - @ $20,000.

No other unit is aware of the fact that he has a washer/dryer (including the Board) so the general assumption would be all the mold in his unit is caused by the external water leak (which is the HOA's responsibility) - and now we (the home owners) are being faced with a significant assessment since we can't use our reserves (and we are in a small bldg). He is now on the Board himself and still has not disclosed this.

We are in CA so of course I have read up on this issue through the Davis-Stirling site...
http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/WasherDryerRetrofit/tabid/3397/Default.aspx#axzz27uyRMKtu

Does anyone have experience with this issue? It seems that improperly vented dryers can easily cause dryrot - and thus mold or other water leaks from the waster etc. How could we determine the cause of the mold in the bedroom - if it was from a water leak in the living room (can it move that far) or would it obviously be from the washer/dryer in that area? Any other thoughts? And what is his obligation to disclose this? It seems to be quite misleading to leave out such material inforamtion and have the homeowners believe it is all due to the external leak.

Thanks. The Association does not know... only I know because he had once disclosed it to me. I had hoped he would disclose it as the dialogue has progressed (via HOA mtgs etc.), but he hasn't. The HOA has no reason to suspect all the water damage/mold was caused by anything other than the leak into his living room.

There have been meetings with the HOA regarding this issue and he keeps quiet. The leak in the living room is definitly the HOA responsibility. I do not know if mold in the bedroom can be caused from a leak in the living room or if it would had to have been caused by the water in the bedroom. I don't know if there has been a washer/dryer leak (he certainly wouldn't disclose it at this point!). He is on the first floor, so there would obviously be issues with proper venting etc.

Thanks Tim. Yes - I am a member of the HOA and NO - I'm not ok paying for a portion of the mold remediation if it may not be our responsibility. I'm trying to understand how we could know if the mold in the bedroom is part of the leak in the living room or it could be from a w/d leak (or even not a w/d leak - but just moisture that wasn't vented properly). I don't know how far moisture/mold can travel - if it is even plausible that it could be from a living room leak? The HOA are for the most part trusting of the info given to them/don't get involved and will not question/research these things so I'm taking it upon myself to do so. I don't want to raise the issue until I have all the information. Thanks.

One further thought: A dryer normally needs either 220-volts electrical or natural gas. What is he using and how does he get the current or the gas to the dryer? The mind boggles at the possibilities, all bad.

If I lived in your building I would be on the phone to my local building department. I would also make sure that my fire insurance has not lapsed.

Actually there are no vent washer/dryer combo units that uses a 120v circuit and hook up to a bathroom or kitchen faucet, here is an example of one. There are also individual portable washers that hook up to sinks and dryers (all using 115-120v circuit). Just do an internet search on "portable washer and no vent dryer"

I also located a story about a renter in new york who had one: Inside Story: My illegal washer-dryer

All that said, I do believe that the washer/dryer caused or contributed to some of the mold problem in the one room.

I agree

In fact some types of mold can be very dangerous. Perhaps you should educate yourself before suggesting water and bleach are the simple answer.

My second thought would be the conclusion insurance would cover the costs of clean-up and repair. Does the OP or the Board know what coverge they have for mold? In many cases the cause would determine whether the removal would be covered under insurance. And the improper installation of a washer/dryer unit MIGHT void any coverage if it was determined that was the cause of the mold growth.

What also concerns me is you have a Board member who has a washer/dryer in their unit in violation of the property's rules or guidelines. That is the first issue that should have been addressed ASAP. The rest of the Board should be made aware of this now! Understanding they can not properly handle the situation without this knowledge.

If a certified mold specialist were called in and instructed they were to inspect the unit, determine IF there is in fact a mold issue, what the source of the mold is, what the cost to remove the mold would be,
and then return with an estimate.

If a portion is casued by an outside leak the HOA should cover that cost. IF and WHEN it is determined by an independent contractor that the presence of a washer/dryer resulted in some portion or all of the mold buildup then the owner would be responsible for the costs. They would also be required to remove the W/D ASAP.

Thank you Larry! That is the exact information I was looking for. I don't have expertise in this area, but knew there was a connection and potential for significant issue. I needed someone to lay it out for me so I could explain it to the rest of the HOA. Much appreciated!

Thanks Tim - very helpful information!!!

Matt

You said:

There was an external water leak into his living room a few months back. They have tested for mold and it has come back positive and he wants the HOA to pay for all the mold/remediation in the living room (where the leak occurred), as well as the bedroom (where the washer/dryer is installed) - @ $20,000.

Is there no one on the BOD asking where did this water/mold come from? If you do not care to speakup then come at it from that angle.

On behalf of my fellow owners, it is impertative we know where this water/mold came from so we can prevent/resolve any potential future issues. Keep the spotlight on the issue.

Matthew, I'm guessing he broke your Architectural Guidelines too, which very well may be stated in your CC&Rs. In our condo towers, no wall penetration of any kind beyond the sheetrock can occur without ARC permission, which means no electrical, plumbing, etc. may occur. There are fines for ignoring these important rules. And your director is engaging in an activity that's a very serious undisclosed conflict of interest. You must make certain he's busted ASAP1

(Speaking of "morons," we had one here who ran a gas line from her oven through a heat pump closet and into the laundry closet so she could have a gas (vs. elect.) dryer! She had ARC approval for other work, So when a committee member came to inspect it, he was very surprised to see that creative piece of work. She was fined and had to put everything back to the way it was.)

Thanks Laura. Yes - they did an independent mold inspection - just came back with the results -- no mention of cause. And I agree with your other conclusions.

Thanks Steve. You mentioned the HOA is responsible for the mold inside the walls. If the unit owner (Board member) illegally installed a washer/dryer (which is strictly prohibited in our CC&Rs due to the age of our building and our plumbing etc.), wouldn't the unit owner be responsible for that damage? Per earlier posts (by Larry etc.), the unit owner would have had to open up/cut holes in the walls, cut into the supply lines and drain etc.

I have to state this and no offense meant...How STUPID is your HOA for having this guy be in charge of the entire project? Seriously? DUMB...There got that off my chest.

Make sure that it is understood where this money is coming from. The HOA right? Mmmm...A HOa is made up of you and the rest of the members/neighbors. It is ONLY funded by the members for the members. so this money from the HOA he wants has to be raised by ALL the members. Meaning everyone has to pay higher dues or have a special assessment. Let's see how many members agree to the special assessment knowing only the one person is effected is in charge of the whole project.

A special assessment is NOT just a board vote. It is a majority of members vote. Everyone has a right to know the project cost and reason.

I still think this is an insurance claim by both the HOA and the owner. Why they aren't involved I don't understand. Not all mold is toxic. Everyone's house would test positive for mold. It is in the carpet. Teat for the toxic type would be my only concern. Otherwise it is mold that bleach or new drywall can fix.

Sorry Tim but I would NOT feel comfortable with the one person effected leading the cause. All the decisions they are making should be discussed amongst everyone. Including the contract hires. I had a 3 bid policy no matter who you were. The BOD is in control of the money to be spent. They should be more informed of the progress and present when contractors appear.

We as a board would always meet together and review the issue firsthand. Then we agree to get bids for a contractor. That way we all saw the problem and not someone's word.

Exactly Tim! Why this did not happen here should be the question.

P.S. - Melissa/Tim,

As for the multiple bids. I completely agree with you. They hired a consultant to just investigate (not remediate) the problem and evaluate the damage. He put together a proposal (of several thousand dollars - that included construction guys, mold specialists etc.) -- all friends of his or long term colleagues.) When I requested a 2nd/3rd bid for this proposal, the Board member came back to me and said the lawyer (who is friends w/ the consultant) told them they are not legally obligated to get any other bids. While not legally obligated, I argued that it is in the best interest of the HOA etc. It is clear the lawyer does not represent the best interests of the HOA. All very frustrating...

Thanks Laura. Yes - he ran for the Board to specifically manage this project. We do not know the source of the mold in his unit or if there was a water leak from his illegally installed washer/dryer so we can't yet say he specifically caused it. There was an external leak that did create water damage to his living room (which is the HOAs responsibility) - just not sure if it's responsible for the mold in the bedrooms (where the w/d) are. I am gathering all the facts/expert nformation/background on how washer/dryers are installed/potential damage so I can be informed and raise my concerns in an educated manner. Other homeowners are now starting to ask more questions, but in general, they trust this guy etc.

Laura - I agree completely. There is something not right here. He is fully controlling the situation - i.e., prohibiting others from having direct contact with the consultant, attorney, mold guys etc. Appreciate your (and everyone else's) help.

Laura - surprisingly no. He has sold it as "I'm the most knowledgable about the situation so I should manage it". It is surprising to me as well...

Thanks Jon. The Board member was put in office over the summer. To be clear - the owner of the unit (Board member) is asking for the $20,000 for remediation in his unit. It has not yet been approved (I certainly would not have let that happen yet) and no money has actually been spent. The HOA (of which I am obviously a part of) will have to approve those expenditures - that is why I am trying to understand all the implications of the w/d installation and possibility of mold.

I have disclosed this fact now to a few other homeowners (and will disclose it publicly to all home owners at the next mtg) as well as the guy doing the mold testing. I have also reached out to the attorney the Board retained for this issue (though he won't call me back b/c his client if officially the Board - not the HOA that pays his fees.). I plan to send him a letter to make sure he understands all the material facts.

The person doing the destructive testing (to understand the full scope of the problem before we engage a general contractor) will absolutely have this information so he too can make an informed conclusion about the cause of the mold etc. We have not yet engaged any general contractors to remediate the work, but they will also be aware of the situation. It is clearly in our best interest to only do the actual investigative and remediation work once.

As for the existing Board and their investigative work, I think they just don't have any reason to assume there would be a w/d in the unit since it's strictly prohibited in our CC&Rs etc. They are not educated on construction/mold issues and will have just assumed that the other leak caused it. And as mentioned - the Board is an old boys network. They don't easily expose one another's violations etc. (they aren't looking for any other reasons). It will be up to the experts doing the investigative work etc. to really find/communicate the cause of the leak/mold etc. in the official reports.

Thanks again.

My wife worked for a mold remediation company and holds several certifications and one thing she would tell anyone affected by mold issues is never use bleach. It does not kill the mold and while it may make the surface appear clean, it really masks the issue. The mold spores will survive and spread while you think it may be taken care of. It is a common misconception and there have been many jobs she had taken that were far worse then they would have been because of people taking the DIY route.

Thanks Glen - appreciate your comments. As for the supposition about the washer/dryer - the homeowner/Board member has admitted he installed it. There is no dispute about it and if specifically questioned he will have to come clean. I have not disclosed it yet to the Board as I am hoping the homeowner himself will disclose it. He and I have known one another for years (and in general have gotten along) so I'm just trying to keep this from escalating. If he does not disclose it to the Board members I will have no choice but to do so. As for the cause of the mold in the bedroom, I have not concluded the w/d is the cause. I do not know that and don't pretent to be an expert in mold etc. -- that is why I'm trying to learn about it etc. There is a mold expert who is involved in the testing as well as the remediation and he - along with the men doing the destructive testing (not the General contractor) - will determine the cause of the mold. I did speak with the mold expert yesterday and he said it was very highly unlikely that a water leak into the living room could cause mold in the bedroom (but could not be positive without a full investigation).

As for the attorney - I understand the concern with not wanting every homeowner to call them etc., but I'm unclear how our interests are represented. If we have concerns about the Board members acting legally/ethically, how do we communicate them to the attorney? The Board has included in the minutes of the mtg (which is widely read by the off-site owners who do not attend the mtgs in person) that the attorney represents the HOA (therefore giving them more assurance that everything is being handled properly).

Simple solution here, speak up at the meeting, or forever hold your peace.

Other owners need to be aware of the issue. I would be pissed if I had to pay a special assessment because of the stupidity of a single owner, and even more pissed when I find out that this homeowner is getting half a new unit from my special assessment payment.

The contractor is the most knowledgeable (hopefully), not the board member. Sounds like you need a property manager to keep this board in check.