Security Cameras--Florida

Hi all! This is in Florida so answers/replies may need to be "state law answered". Our condo complex has had an influx of criminal and vandalism incidents to residents, cars and community property. Some members are requesting we install security cameras. We've discussed it at meetings and I brought up the statute that any "new, material alterations" needs to be voted on by the members, in order for it to be passed. Our property manager believes we have to have a vote of the members...which would be 66 2/3% for it to pass.

The problem is that we have SO MANY new, rule-violating, owners that THEY will block the majority of voters! We'll NEVER get the % we'll need to pass the "improvement" to have them installed. Even though we have a huge number of owners who want them. It's the "nay-sayers" who will "tip the scales" to ensure we don't get it passed. (Nothing good has ever passed here.....not even an American flag pole on the property.)

I just find it hard to believe that the Association has to put the safety and security of the owners/residents on the back burner because of a few people who are going to dictate that their behavior is going to decide how the rest of the people have to live.

Any thoughts; experience; or advise from others at condos in Florida?
Thank you!

Anna,

The place to go to get your question "state law answered" is to an attorney. It sounds like you are on the board and your board should have the wherewithal to seek the advice of a professional.

Anna

Glen and Peter had good answers.

Are you trying to stnd in the way of installing cameras? If not is sounds like you are. Why?

Yes, I'm on the Board; have been for almost ten years. No, I'm not trying to stop the installation of the cameras....I'm trying to help get them in place. I'm responding to the request of the owners, here, because of the criminal and vandalism actions of some residents and their visitors. It's a safety and security move that the Board would like to implement.

The "fail rate" is simple. We have 46 units...15 units are habitual violators; criminals; etc. We need 66 & 2/3% IN FAVOR of cameras for it to pass. That would have to be 31 units voting IN FAVOR of it. We'd never get 46 units to even vote...and the 15 units voting AGAINST would wipe out those voting FOR the cameras.

I hope this makes sense. I still hope to hear from other associations in Florida who may have installed cameras on their property without having to jump through hoops to have the membership decide that this is a good action for everyone involved.
Thank you!

"I still hope to hear from other associations in Florida who may have installed cameras on their property without having to jump through hoops to have the membership decide that this is a good action for everyone involved."

As I read this again it is utter nonsense.

No one here can help you achive your goals despite your members wishes.

Peter---please look at how many posts I've had. I was an active member of HOATalk since 2006...but QUIT posting,because of the "snarky", non-helpful people such as yourself who TOTALLY changed the purpose and meaning of this forum. People such as yourself have chased a LOT of helpful, informed, intelligent, seasoned board members OFF this forum because of the arrogant, self-serving comments you post.

Please stop posting your vicious, insulting comments to MY question and let the others answer me. If this is how you talk to members of your association and if this is how you speak to your Board Members then you need help.......a LOT of help.

Your comments serve no purpose. Refrain from posting.

I think if you do your research you will fine through case law that installing security cameras is not defined as a "material alteration". Installing cameras for safety and security does not fall under that definition any more than installing a fence for the same reasons,most general maintenance and security upgrades have not in the state of Florida. As a board member you should still spend the couple hundred dollars for a legal opinion.It always pays to be one step ahead of the naysayers.

Anna,

I agree Peter can be snarky. So can I.

I agree as stated above that cameras are not helpful.

But that is not what you asked is it?

You later posted:

"I still hope to hear from other associations in Florida who may have installed cameras on their property...

...without having to jump through hoops to have the membership decide that this is a good action for everyone involved."

What could be more arrogant and self-serving than the last half of that sentence??

You later make your own snarky, vicious, insulting comments.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Just say'n.

Anna,

If you read the applicable statute I believe that the phrase "material alteration" is open for interpretation. Therefore, I would suggest seeking a legal opinion of that definition OR to contact the FL condo ombudsman for their definition.

I agree with John. This is a whole membership issue. We had several conversations about installing security cameras in our HOA only to decide no. The biggest issue was that we had to install them on common property of the HOA. That property included a clubhouse with a pool and the mailbox house. The two main places our crime took place.

The issue became a privacy one when it came to the pool area. No one felt comfortable with video cameras in the pool area due to "bathing suits" privacy issues. The mailboxes were the post office responsibility. In the end we just decided it was better to insitute the old tradition of neighbor watching neighbor. Which worked the best and caught the most.

There is the fine line between privacy and crime. Your HOA may be better off allowing individual owners to install their own cameras if they want them. That way they won't be paid for by the HOA or their responsibility. However, the HOA may want to put in certain guidelines of where they can be pointed, type, and placement. You can get some disgruntle or creepy neighbors who may point their cameras at their neighbors just because they don't like eachother. It opens up another can of worms but as long as the HOA doesn't use their money, that may be the best option.

Along with the friendly advice from many--to get an attorney's opinion--who would monitor these cameras, Anna?

We have about 21 cameras in our 200+ unit urban high rise situation, but we also have 24 hr. security staff, who look at monitors. Tapes also can be reviewed. In our situation, they've been useful in identifying residents/guests who've damaged elevators; been noisy too late in the pool or spa. We were able to identify a resident's guests who took one of our luggage carts off the premises for a "joyride." The cart was abandoned, never found, and the unit owner was billed ($1,200!) for its replacement.

We added three new cameras a year ago and didn't need to seek homeowners' approval, but that's different than your circumstances, Anna.

You're welcome Anna!!!!

No go and jump through some hoops!