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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
We are a 43 retirement community in NE. I have lived here a little over 4 years and in that time there has never been a fine schedule. I read somewhere either on here on in other research that we can not fine without a fine schedule in place. We are considering preparing a fine schedule.
At the meeting last night our Vice President mentioned a fine of $10.00 per day. My gut instinct is that legally we may not be able to fine $10.00 per day.
I thank you for any and all input on this matter.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Bonnie:
You need to have the authority to fine in your governing documents before you can fine anyone. And your state's laws might also require you to hold a hearing before you can take any kind of disciplinary action on a homeowner.

That said, $10 a day for 100 days before it goes to collection is reasonable. To make it even fairer, you can say that if the violation is corrected within the 100 days, the fines will be waived.
Jeanne
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeanneK3 on 01/11/2013 10:11 AM
Bonnie:
You need to have the authority to fine in your governing documents before you can fine anyone. And your state's laws might also require you to hold a hearing before you can take any kind of disciplinary action on a homeowner.

That said, $10 a day for 100 days before it goes to collection is reasonable. To make it even fairer, you can say that if the violation is corrected within the 100 days, the fines will be waived.
Jeanne

Our governing documents do allow us to fine for violation of rules. Later today the President and I are going to meet with our lawyer in his office. I will also ask him about the $10.00 per day fine. But I still appreciate all input from people on this site.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Ask your lawyer this. Does your HOA have to take the violator to court to collect the fines or can you lien for them? Each state is different but most do not allow fines to be the basis of liens. I know one state the HOa has to posibly sue to collect. A good question to ask if trying to collect.

Former HOA President
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Say, Bonnie. For some violations, a set amount per day MIGHT make sense. Let's say moving a car that's improperly parked, removing items from common area hallways, etc.

But we don't use that method here at all. Let's say a unit has bicycles stored on its balcony. The owner is sent a courtesy letter and is told to have them removed within, let's say, 2 weeks. If the violation isn't cured, the owner is called to hearing and a $50 fine can be given.

There are others though that might be fined per incident. Here, for instance, if a unit has loud partiers on its balcony, neighbors complain, and security tells them to tone it down. The unit owner gets a 'courtesy" letter reminding them of noise nuisance rules and stating that a further violation of that type will result in a letter calling them to hearing and a possible $100 fine.

Our noise nuisance fines are listed on our Schedule of Fines, along with some other (hopefully!) one-time type of incidents when it doesn't make sense to levy a daily fine, e.g., moving in or out on weekends or evenings when we don't want to tie up elevators; dog noise nuisances, failing to get ARC permission for certain work.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/11/2013 10:31 AM
Ask your lawyer this. Does your HOA have to take the violator to court to collect the fines or can you lien for them? Each state is different but most do not allow fines to be the basis of liens. I know one state the HOa has to posibly sue to collect. A good question to ask if trying to collect.

The President and I just got back from a meeting with our lawyer and he said we could place a lein on a unit for unpaid fines.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
While we're talking fines and I know this would for the most part apply to stand alone HOA's a couple of years ago it was suggested that HOA's put in place a "Mega" fine of $500 - $1,000 for failure to apply for and receive ARC approval before beginning work that required ARC approval. While some states limits the daily amount of a fine, this is designed not to be punitive but to forcibly remind homeowners to follow the rules. Another idea that was in the news feed a few years ago was one HOA had signs made which went in a homes front yard during construction. THIS PROJECT APPROVED BY THE ARC, the HOA in question did it because it cut out neighbors calling to find out if it was an approved project and as a subtle visual reminder that ARC approval was necessary.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I have lived here a little over 4 years and in that time there has never been a fine schedule......our Vice President mentioned a fine of $10.00 per day.


You can do anything you want, and people may even pay it, until someday a person fights you in court and the judge tells you it wasn't legal.

So just do it the right way in the first place. Setup a fine schedule, etc.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Steve there was a story on here years ago, which I unfortunately lost the link to. Seems a couple in a Hoity-toity HOA out west racked up well over $250,000.00 in fines and took the HOA to court over "excessive" fines. The court ruled in the HOA's favor stating that if the homeowners had simply followed the CC&R's they would have had $0 fines.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
When you do set up a fine schedule do factor in a few things. Is the fine bigger than living with it? There was one thread in here that the person was getting fined for their car advertising. However, the fine amount was worth paying and they kept their advertising. The HOA couldn't do much about that since they paid their fine. So they were able to keep breaking the rules. Which could lead to poisoning the well because someone will ultimately say "Look they have been breaking the rules for a year now and your doing nothing..." Can you explain this person is paying fines for it and thus can keep their violation going?

That is a very rare event but it is a loop hole in the process. When setting your fine amount it may not be simple $10 a day. Each violation may need to have it's own rate. Fines are like speeding tickets for the HOA. They are not money making or something one can set their budget on. Their purpose is to correct a violation and make them obey the law. When evaluating how to handle fines think about how speeding tickets are handled as a rough guide.


Former HOA President
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
The fine schedule can continue to increase for non compliance. Some states now allow the fine to be taken off the top of the maintenance fees incuring an additional fine for underpaying you HOA fee.It soon becomes unacceptable to the owner in violation of the Bylaws.

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