ADA request denied. Next step??

Approximately 2 months ago.
My spouse who is disabled and has memory issues was denied the ability to provide an external lock box on our property which is same as what our realtors use.

My husband's memory issues is related to a well known disease that our board is well aware of. For the last 5 years we have kept alongside our other realtor lock boxes a key to not only our home, but the front door just as the realtors have. In November we found that our box was removed without notice by our current BOD.

Saying that I asked for a replacement which would replace the box which they removed without notice.

We currently have NO RULES prohibiting lock boxes on the property either in our rules or ccr's. I know I checked.

In November our HOA denied to replace the lock box. I submitted in writing to please allow my husband to have access to a lock box ( as he has forgotten his keys multiple times directly related to his memory issues from his progressive neurological disease ) I explained this to our BOD in that written request.. dated November 14, 2012.

I never heard back from our board or our PM. Today I researched the original email and found the date and the request never answered. I emailed our HOA and the PM.

The HOA president texted me.. and told me this. "No lock boxes are allowed in the common area.". I asked here where are the realtor places theres? She said "In the comomon area." I asked her to reference the rule regarding placment of the realtor boxes or denial of homeowners having access to such. That question went unanswered.

We are fully prepared to seek legal guidance. My husband has against his wishes provided the HOA with his health history in attempt to provide them the justification for this request to accommodate his disability which has been denied.

There doesn't seem to be much more we can do here except talk to our attorney.. or is there? I hate pushing the atty threat on our board, but they got that in our first email request.
Please advise..

This is a multi level condo building. The common area in reference is an area next to our garage area.. the area the locks on are on wrought iron bars on one of our security windows. Currently there are 4 locks on the window today.

I hope this helps.

Ignorance of this disease kills me. With all due respect.. My husbands memory for long term is in tact. Our Lock box #'s may be his birthday, or another special number that is long locked into his memory.

To even suggest that I hurt my spouses pride and dignity and put keys around my husbands neck is nothing short of looney.

I am working against the ignorance or our HOA board as you can easily understand. The board has turned down our request, as outlined by above.

I am sorry if I personalized this but your response to me sir.. is well, kind of shocking!

You need to be willing to think outside the box and come up with creative ideas like key around the neck or shoe. Its only a matter of time until he forgets the code. You really need to be flexible or you will be disappointed.

I've never heard of a lock box being a medical device. You cant demand people meet whatever need you desire because of a disability. Doesn't work that way.

ADA... yes we can make request to meet disability. This is a reasonable request.. Already have an atty in the background. Frankly.. I am shocked and really taken back my the comments.. Its only a matter of time until he forgets the code. and lets put a key around a grown mans neck.

If you are on any sort of HOA board your prejudgement( on a disease you are ignorant on ) shocks the hell out of me!!
I really feel for you if your loved one's every get a disabling diagnosis. Lets put a key on your 45 year old wife's neck sir and see if that makes her feel any less of a human with dignity intact. OMFG
I am not looking here for any further advice if this is what you kooks can muster up.
My atty feels a letter may shock them enough to get the answer and the right one.

If she regularly lost her key, my wife would gladly wear a key instead of being stuck in a hallway for hours.

Michelle I'm almost at the point where I will be forced to use a walker to get around. I would rather use the walker than have to be picked up off the ground, now that would hurt my pride and dignity.

That is not acceptable by my spouse and I support him. What he says would hurt his dignity.. does.

Michelle if you re-read my posts, I agree that the lockbox is a reasonable accommodation, since you are so set against him wearing keys which I still think is perfectly reasonable and not demeaning in the least, how about a simple note next to the door. TAKE YOUR KEYS or if that is too demeaning DO YOU HAVE YOUR KEYS?

Glen, while I know your response has good intentions I appreciate that. But please quit while your ahead man.
Don't judge someone's disability unless you have walked a mile in their
shoes. If you are a board member which I suspect you are.. I hope you practice more of an open mind to peoples own sensitivities and needs for we are all not like you, your wife, your neighbor etc.

Well at least there is a sound post here. Thank you for telling me I should put keys around my husband neck as "he will forget the lock code at some point".

I appreciate your response and I have already contacted a local HOA atty.. who is willing to assist with this. The ADA is to protect people with disabilities, to provide them with reasonable accommodations and prevent discriminatory action.

I think it's pretty clear now why you are getting no cooperation from your board.

Larry,

I am sorry for you to say such a thing. The lady and her husband are obviously under a LOT of stress with the illness. I am sure that her posts on this website are not her first attempt at seeking a reasonable accommodation for her situation. Maybe she is posting here at the end of a long line of trying other avenues. The frustration is clearly evident and I am sure that a little bit of compassion by you and ALL of us on this website are in order.

Your attitude is very reflective of some of the people I have dealt with on my own board. Pure and disgusting ignorance and a complete lack of compassion. In many of my posts I have indicated that a lot of problems would be avoided by us "just being good neighbors".

The unfortunate reality is that this website is no different than any of the boards of directors out there. I have read many of your posts where you have offered sound advice and I have come to appreciate much of what you wrote. You now demean and belittle yourself by insulting Michelle.

I am sure Michelle's issue is one that you board members on this site could benefit from and serve as an education as the babyboomer get older and face many of these same diseases in coming years. I think every single one of us on the website has something to contribute and we all learn something new each day (at least I do by coming here).

Please Larry, step back and re-read the thread and see if you are lacking compassion. The issue is strongly emotional for Michelle and while you are vapor locked in stating she is inflexible, you certainly are not giving her any credit for maybe trying a bunch of alternatives prior to her posting here.

Do the right here, cut her and her husband some slack on this one.

As any board member here knows, this stuff gets out of hand.





Reasonable, is in the eye of the beholder.

Another idea: Put the lockbox on somewhere else nearby like a public fence. Doesn't need to be on the condo property.

That may be an option but not where we live. No such thing near by. Btw when our box was removed.... we had 6 lock boxes on our gate. Now there is 4. Removing ours and another one. Its not like that funny picture posted. Our request is not like that nix of ours was hurting anything. The judgement received here and apathy does reflect that of many hoas including my own. The hugest comment asking what my
Husband d has and I must be embaraased by it really saddens me. Its not needed to share private medical information or diagnosis. It could be MS …ALL… ( Lou Gherigs) AIDS dementia ...or an early diagnosis of Parkinson's. All of which cause memory issues.. and all can be the qualifying diagnosis for a disability. It doesn't matter what it is. Ignorance and nlatent ignorance of laws by BODS when it comes to basic ADA scares me as an ex BOD and homeowner. Peoples lack of real knowledge and flighty judgemntal actions are viewed as a huge potential legal liability. Too many patty's out there are in business as a ADA specialty! Mine is no different.....

Does it matter what the condition is? No...and frankly its confidential! His diagnosis is our business and to wonder what it is is frankly nobodys business. Doesn't matted what the nature of his illness whether its MS ALS or PARKINSON'S... ignorance.remains the same.

Was this response to my suggestion of using a key-less door lock on your front door?

Local hardware stores have them, they may be ordered online and, I suspect, any locksmith would be able to provide one.

Using a key-less entry system would likely resolve the issue.

Yes, I agree, they should have informed you about removing the lock box. Unfortunately, they didn't. Here is an alternative that would likely be a compromise to forgetting a key and accommodating that forgetfulness without the need for a lock box.

Tim,

I gathered from Michelle's post's that there are TWO keys needed for access. One to get in the building and the second to get in to her unit. While the keyless entry for her unit might work, it seems reasonable that a keyless entry for access to the Condo complex itself will not.

Besides, if the HOA in this case is so up in arms over lock boxes, what do they say about the keyless entry for her unit. I am sure it will look different than all the other units and they won't approve it.

our board and nejghbkrs know what my husbands has. I RE

fingerprint door lock

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Weatherproof+Fingerprint+Door+Lock&FORM=RESTAB

I think the problem is that there are two keys required to gain entry. One for the building and the second for her actual unit.

I agree that the finger-print door lock might be a viable solution for her unit (doubtful in that this will look much different than the other units and probably will be rejected by her board).

The other aspect is for the entry to the building. The finger print door lock is most likely unfeasible for this application. How many hundreds of people would need to be scanned in, who will do it and how much will it cost? In this instance, the lockbox with key is a very in ex-pensive way to go.

So, it seems to be a personal attack from the president of the HOA. I guess I didn't realize that before. I just figured they removed any lockboxes that didn't belong to a unit that was for sale.

Does the organization your husband is a part of have consumer advocates. For example, I worked at the Paralyzed Veterans of America and if you had an ADA issue, they would help you with their attorneys to try to get a compromise. Sometimes having an organization on board will spur people along when one person won't. Like I said previously, your local Center for Independent Living should also help with this because their goal is to keep your husband at home as long as possible.

If there's no talking to them, then you may have to pursue legal action. It seems silly over a door lock, but if they are really that disinterested in finding a solution than that may be the way to go. But see if you can get help from an advocacy group to minimize your out-of-pocket expense on it.

I have just dealt with a lot of people who are ignorant to ADA accommodations, either with folks in wheelchairs when I worked at PVA or with my friend who is blind, that I always suggest education as a first step. Nine times out of ten, it has worked for me. Unless folks know someone who has a disability, there is a lot of ignorance about accommodations.