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ChrisH14 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I, as a owner, have had a water leakage problem in my condo which is on the ground floor.
It was caused by dripping from a washer connection.
(The water was on the floor so the wall damage was minimal.)
A couple of mopping removed all the water on the floor.

HOA already sent out a wet wall drying company to make a repair the water damage to the wall at the time of leakage. How fast they are! They arrived even before me even before the source of leakage was found and tightened. They were ready to dry the wet walls!

We refused the specific company's service because I wanted to replace the damaged portion of the wall. Drying wet walls seemed to me so ineffective, time-consuming and expensive. Replacing the walls at the height of max 2 ft from floor for less than 20 ft will cost $500 and can be done in one day.

The company left.
And then came back momentarily due to the HOA order.
I refused them to come into my unit because the emergency situation ended.
But they forcefully came in and tore down the bottoms of my Kitchen Sink Base Cabinets and INTERNAL walls to dry insides of them. I told HOA over the phone at the scene I would let it fixed first thing in the morning but HOA wouldn't listen.

Drying the wet walls started at the time of leakage on the same day agaisnt my will!

The length of external wall they are drying is only 1 ft which is beside the entrance door. (External wall may be forcefully repaired according to the bylaw of HOA, only if the owner wouldn't fix it in a reasonable amount of time frame.)

They are still running the humidifier and fan after 10 days of the incident.

I strongly disagree that REMEDY to a water damage CONSTITUTE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. Especially, when it is limited to internal walls and kitchen cabinets. The owner must be able to fix the damage in a reasonable way he wants.

Please don't hesitate to provide me with your advise or opinion.
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
From your post, I am guessing that you're in a building that contains multiple units, not standalone units or townhomes. As an HOA board member, if you had water damage in a building that I'm ultimately responsible for, yep, I'm going to remediate that damage as quickly as possible. Water, even a small amount can lead to mold. Mold is very dangerous and expensive to fix. As long as the HOA is covering the repairs, why would you want to do it yourself? I just had water damage in my townhome and because I'm responsible for my drywall, it's all on me and it's a big pain to fix. And I don't have any mold damage.

The reality is that tons of homeowners SAY they will make repairs and then don't do it. You can read tons of posts in this forum that demonstrate that. And, in a shared building, the HOA needs to keep everyone safe and sound and in a prompt manner.

Maybe they were a little hasty, but others would say they were being very proactive. It's all semantics. But I am pretty sure that my CC&Rs say that if there is something going wrong in my unit that could damage other units that they are coming in. I'm OK with that because that is part of sharing your space with others, and I'd hope that if my neighbors had an issue the same courtesy would be extended to my property.
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
Also, just noticed that you said they came before you'd even discovered the source of the leaking.

A couple of thoughts here. Perhaps they knew there was a leak SOMEWHERE in the building and hired professionals to deal with it.

Did you alert them to the leak? If not, then it's probably not as small as you thought, because someone brought it to the attention of the HOA.
ChrisH14 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I guess you missed my point. I am asking if HOA the legal right to fix it without giving the owner a chance to fix it, not which one is better to your opinion. HOA will charge me for the cost of drying. You are pointless to say there are tons of people not to fix the damage in time because it doesn't necessarily mean that HOA has the right. Water is not a chemical to take care of at the scene and can't be removed immediately. It takes time to dry. It takes much less time to replace. You emphasized 'prompt' action. Which one is 'prompt'?
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
If there was an undetermined leak in a shared building, that's an HOA issue regardless of which unit it is in. Next question: do you all have separate water bills or one bill that's either split or covered by your assessment?

I am looking through my CC&Rs to see what they say about "emergency situations." Ultimately, that's where you will find your answer, in your governing documents.

Regardless of whether it was right or not, it happened. If the HOA forwards the bill to you, then you have the right to dispute it, and I probably would in your situation. But once again, it depends on your covenants.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisH14 on 12/31/2012 10:50 AM
I guess you missed my point. I am asking if HOA the legal right to fix it without giving the owner a chance to fix it, not which one is better to your opinion. HOA will charge me for the cost of drying. You are pointless to say there are tons of people not to fix the damage in time because it doesn't necessarily mean that HOA has the right. Water is not a chemical to take care of at the scene and can't be removed immediately. It takes time to dry. It takes much less time to replace. You emphasized 'prompt' action. Which one is 'prompt'?

I'm inclilned to agree with Laura - this sounds like sounds like you were aware of the problem before this incident (in which case, I'm wondering why you haven't fixed it before now). Did the Board contact you about the leak and give you a deadline to get it fixed? If so and you missed the deadline, did you contact them and explain the reason for the delay?

If you knew there was a problem and were contacted about it, but did nothing, I would think the board should have told you that if it wasn't fixed by a certain deadline, they would have it fixed - and you'd be charged for the work.

Since the work will have to be done anyway, you may need to chalk all this up to a lesson learned, pay your share of the repairs and move on. This would also be a good time to talk to the Board about its expectations regarding repairs. You should also check the CCRs to see if they address the issue - if something's unclear, you can ask them for clarification.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ChrisH14 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am afraid your are totally misunderstood.
But, thanks for the reply.

When I left the condo in the morning, the water was not dripping.
At 4 pm, I have got a call from HOA. If this is 'long enough' and 'ignore', it is my fault. I admit it.

I just want to be responsible and fix it in an acceptable way of my own.
Drying dirty wet pants doesn't make sense to me. I would buy a new pair of pants for a lot less money.

LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
I checked my CC&Rs and basically they say that in the case of an emergency, you agree to grant a temporary easement to enter your home. It says if it's not an emergency that the HOA has to give the owner time to remedy the situation.

The essence of the question here is: was this an emergency? You are saying no, and that you should have had the chance to fix your own property. However, you also mentioned that the remediation that is being done involves an exterior wall, which is the HOA's property and responsibility. They thought it was an emergency.

All you can really do at this point (besides paying for the damage caused by your unit) is to talk to the board members and express your concerns AND hear their rationale for entering your home.
ChrisH14 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks again for your opinion.
The water bill is included in the monthly HOA fee so there is no separate bill.

I understand and agreee that a water leakage consitute an emergency situation.
Now, the source of leakage was fixed.

The remaining work is the wet wall. - a wet wall constiture an emergency?

My question : Does HOA have a legal right to cal 'drying a wet wall' emergency?
(immeditely after the water leak is fixed.)
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
So, the water was dripping while there was no one in the unit and it was enough of a drip that someone outside of the unit could notice it? And this is a building with shared walls and floors?

That probably constitutes an emergency. Perhaps, the HOA should've called you and let you get home and assess the damage before they called in a remediation crew, but none of us have a time machine. So, maybe sending the repair crew out that quickly was hasty, but someone did need to get in the unit and stop the leak.

I am sorry if it feels like we're not understanding you, and maybe we're not. A lot of times folks come on this website and give us their version of events and expect us to say "Oh, big bad HOA trampling on your rights," but many times as we ask questions we realize that we're not getting the whole story. And as a member of an HOA board who puts up with a lot of insane stuff from my neighbors, it's easier for me to look at both sides of an issue. Not saying that you're not giving us the whole story; just saying I can totally see both sides here.
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
Our replies crossed paths.

That part is tricky. Even with a small amount of water there can be mold damage, which is a health issue.

In theory, the HOA should just deal with the external wall and leave the interior wall to you. However, there is the whole mold issue if you don't deal with it. More likely than not, they probably figure that they are doing you a favor just having the contractor coming out and dealing with the whole thing at once. But, if you are handy with drywall, I can see why you would disagree.

Like I said, ask the HOA board about it. Maybe you can come up with a compromise.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
My question : Does HOA have a legal right to cal 'drying a wet wall' emergency?
(immeditely after the water leak is fixed.)


For a legal opinion you should contact an attorney. You keep glossing over the fact that your "minor" leak that only affected your unit somehow became known to the HOA. Do they have a psychic on their staff?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am confused on what wall the HOA was fixing. Was it an internal wall or an external wall? What kind of exterior does your condo have? Is it stucco? Did the drying of the wall need to happen internally so they had access to the external area?

The details are a bit lacking for clarification. I would say the HOA did have a right to come in to fix their issue if the problem is on the external area of the condo that they needed access to. It's like they can't tell you the repair you are doing is correct so why tell them the one they choose to do is wrong?

I would be interested in knowing what the external structure is like for them to come immediatel in to repair the damage. It could have caused issues for others. I wouldn't believe this is the first time this has happened for them to have such a contractor on speed dial. Most HOA's would have taken weeks or days to figure out how to address the issue. The fast reaction to me seems this isn't the first or only time this has happened. They must know something about how to repair things.

Former HOA President
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
ChrisH14,

I am not familiar with Georgia Statutes – so a few questions.

How is your Condo Unit defined? Probably would be in the Declaration or CC&Rs. For example my Condo (simplifying) is defined as the air space enclosed from the PAINT on the perimeter walls (wallboard) inward.

This means that I do not own the physical wallboard around the perimeter of my Unit – the association does. However, other Condo Units in Vermont that fall under a different statute are defined such that the Unit owner does own the physical wallboard on the perimeter walls.

In both case the Association owns the lathe and other building structure behind that wallboard.

So how is your Condo Unit defined? It is not clear from what you posted who owns what.

You also posted β€œ(External wall may be forcefully repaired according to the bylaw of HOA, only if the owner wouldn't fix it in a reasonable amount of time frame.) Would you be willing to post the exact words from the Document that states this? And perhaps explain how it is relevant to what you are asking.

From your description, it seems that the water damage was to an interior wall because you mention kitchen sink base cabinets. But then you wrote that β€œThe length of external wall they are drying is only 1 ft which is beside the entrance door”. Is the entrance door an outside door or is it an inside door off of, perhaps, a hallway?

You said a ground floor Condo. Is it built on a concrete slab – or is there space underneath?

I am a bit confused as to what got damaged. Also it is not clear to me, based on what you posted, β€œwho owns what”, and who is responsible for fixing what, according to your Documents.

And, as has already been asked – how did the Association discover the leak?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 12/31/2012 12:37 PM
My question : Does HOA have a legal right to cal 'drying a wet wall' emergency?
(immeditely after the water leak is fixed.)


For a legal opinion you should contact an attorney. You keep glossing over the fact that your "minor" leak that only affected your unit somehow became known to the HOA. Do they have a psychic on their staff?

Good question.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Chris:
The association has no right to come on your property without your permission unless there is an emergency that is a threat to other units. The contractor was trespassing and you should report both the contractor and your association to the police for trespassing. The only way they can come on your property without permission is with a court order allowing them to do so.
And Happy New Year.
Jeanne
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jean

I think some are questioning/asking/saying that if the association became aware of it...somehow...then there might well have been an emergency situation.

Hello So and So Association, how can I help you....this is Mr. White in unit 12....there is water pouring down my ceiling from the unit above me....I went up and beat on their door...no one answered...help me.....

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisH14 on 12/31/2012 10:19 AM

The company left.
And then came back momentarily due to the HOA order.
I refused them to come into my unit because the emergency situation ended.
But they forcefully came in and tore down the bottoms of my Kitchen Sink Base Cabinets and INTERNAL walls to dry insides of them. I told HOA over the phone at the scene I would let it fixed first thing in the morning but HOA wouldn't listen.

Drying the wet walls started at the time of leakage on the same day agaisnt my will!

They are still running the humidifier and fan after 10 days of the incident.
Please don't hesitate to provide me with your advise or opinion.

My guess is they forced their way in at gunpoint. And running fans and humidifiers 10 days after the "minor" leak. My guess is the poster would have labeled tropical storm Sandy a "MINOR" inconvenience to the northeast.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
Now that I think about it, a minor leak isn't going to cause you to replace drywall. I know this because I had a leak in my house recently (from a washing machine, as well) and it was literally raining in my kitchen and dining room, and I don't have to replace my drywall because I caught everything in time. So, I am guessing it would have to be a lot of water to need to either dry out the existing drywall or replace it, regardless of which remedy you choose.

My best guess from everything OP has told us is that the water had already penetrated the exterior wall by the time the HOA realized there was an issue. How else would they know? Why else would they care? And, also guessing that they had to access the interior walls to fix their exterior wall. (My washing machine flood caused no issues for any community property. If I weren't on the HOA board, no one would even know it happened.)
EdmundS1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 45
Posted:
I think that 99.9% of the people who post on this site wished they had an HOA that was responsive as your HOA is. Water, anywhere, is an emergency because of the mold issue. The HOA I'm on the Board of is dealing with a unit (Group of 4 "Townhouses) where mold was discovered during a kitchem re-do by the new owner. Looks like the water got in from a faulty "Boot" around a vent pipe and we are replacing the entire roof at no cost to the owner.

Our HOA covers all outside upkeep, we paint all 105 homes every five years, replace roofs every 15 years, etc. We do an annual termite inspection, now were wondering if we need to add mold...problem is there does not appear to be at this time a "Test" for mold that we can put much faith in......

Your HOA maybe trying to Cover Their A.. a bit but's that better then not covering it....
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Boy your HOA is responsive, and considering it was a water leak, which as minor as it may have sounded could have been a serious problem, is a good thing. IT doesn't take much for mold to grow and in a condominium this is the kind of problem you want to nip in the bud. If the HOA was alerted to the problem from someone else, then the matter may have been bigger than it seemed and may have constituted an emergency. Check your documents. Also, are you being charged for the repairs or are they part of the dues? And 10 days for equipment for what appeared to be a minor leak seems a bit excessive. It is common practice for the remediation companies to charge for usage of the equipment. Are they taking advantage of your responsive board?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
The owner must be able to fix the damage in a reasonable way he wants.


Its not your building. You don't decide what gets damaged and what gets fixed. Yes, this was an emergency situation as the situation needed to be assessed immediately, as mold would quickly set in and affect other units.

If you lived in your own house, you could do whatever you want, but you don't.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I agree with Steve. In associaion type living one is not free to do as they wish and in most cases, I am thankful for that.
JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 01/01/2013 9:43 AM
The owner must be able to fix the damage in a reasonable way he wants.


Its not your building. You don't decide what gets damaged and what gets fixed. Yes, this was an emergency situation as the situation needed to be assessed immediately, as mold would quickly set in and affect other units.

If you lived in your own house, you could do whatever you want, but you don't.

DITTO
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisH14 on 12/31/2012 10:19 AM

But they forcefully came in

If I refused entry and they forcefully enter, I'm contacting the police.

Perhaps you don't mean forcefully?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Shoot - happened again.

OLD THREAD!

Probably someone posted spam (especially with the hurricane damage) and the moderators removed it.

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