package theft

Started by ShaneJ3 • 22 replies • 2301 views

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ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

I am a committee member on my association board and we are having a big problem with theft of packages left at our homeowners doorsteps. Our building is a 4-story mixed use building with retail and condos and parking structure in the center. Currently we have our parking structures doors unlocked so there is access to anyone who would like to enter. we are planning to use fob entry on these doors which would keep out intruders but also not allow delivery by the postal carriers delivering large parcels that dont fit in our designated mailboxes to homeowners doorsteps. We are considering allowing residents to have large parcels delivered and held at our hoa offices. I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how we could structure this so the hoa is not liable for these packages and we don't become a storage unit for unclaimed boxes.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

contact your postmaster IN WRITING and follow advice received

imo: postal packages should not be left on doorsteps if too large for OPL box

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

create a form letter for every tenant to sign.

Some kind of liability waiver...

I hereby ask XYZ Building Alliance to serve as a recipient for all packages that are unable to be delivered in my designated mail box or to me personally, and grant them immunity to any claims of liability for said packages, so long as they exert moderate diligence and care in their receipt and handling.

Throw in words like indemnify and have someone who's brain is working tonight make it more legal, but you get the idea. My brain is not on.

Everyone who wants you to be their parcel holder signs it. those who don't, don't.

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

thanks brian I was thinking of waiver also.. good wording. but what to do if they don't pick up their packages in a timely matter. what action could we take?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

you are missing the point:

this is a matter to be addressed by the US Postal Service

imo: doorstep delivery of US MAIL is NOT PERMITTED

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

John i have always received mail on my doorstep here in california except if a signature was required. I guess we could tell every homeowner to get a po box or request that all packages be picked up from the carriers' offices but I am trying to make receiving mail as easy as possible for the homeowners here. I basically just wanted to get feedback and ideas from other members about this issue. Thanks for your help guys.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Two years ago I put in a new mailbox for a rural home that I was renting. I had to fill out a form at the Post Office directing them as to how to handle mail that would not fit in the box. Among the options were to take it back to the PO for me to pick up there or leave it by the door of my home. I do not recall ever filling out a similar form for delivery in an urban area but I wonder if there is one. It really ought to be up to each homeowner to decide where his packages should be left.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

precisely .... it is a USPS matter

in general:

assuming a cluster box unit arrangement

packages are left in the secured OPL

oversized pkgs MAY be hand delivered by the carrier but must be personally handed over

(?annual gratuity ?)

undeliverable (oversized) pkgs are held at the PO for pick up

again: this is not a BOD or HOA matter

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

ShaneJ,

From what you posted – a little hard to visualize your post office box set up in relation to the homeowner’s door steps.

In our Association we have a “bank” of incoming letter size boxes outside in a central location. And alongside that grouping of letter size boxes are a number of large size package boxes provided by the US Postal Service at no cost to us.

All those large size package boxes have a key to open, hanging in the lock when empty. When there is a package to deliver, the postal carrier puts the package in the package box, takes the key out, and places the key inside the locked letter size box of the intended recipient

Would some variation of “large locked package boxes” work for you?

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

ShaneJ,

I just re-read your posts. You specifically mention package delivery by postal carrier.

What about delivery of packages by UPS, FedEx, and other carriers. When a signature is not needed, where are those packages left?

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

your probably right john.. may not even want to open this can of worms. Homeowners wont be happy but may have to take individual action to protect their packages on their own. They are going to try and hold the hoa responsible for not getting packages at their doorsteps after we lock the parking structure entrances which will lock out all carriers as well im sure. i am including a picture of our mail boxes at the building- I do see a larger box with a key..dont know exactly what its for.. may be for usps parcels.. we still have alot of fedex and ups parcels that cant use this..

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

cant upload pic sorry..

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

One thing for sure is the USPS (United States Postal Service, old US Post Office) is going to have to update their customer service to compete. No longer can it be...we are the Post Office...and we tell you how it is and that is the law.

To the OP. Not sure you drew a difference between USPS and all other delivery services and that difference is critical.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EllieD on 12/23/2012 2:59 PM
ShaneJ,

I just re-read your posts. You specifically mention package delivery by postal carrier.

What about delivery of packages by UPS, FedEx, and other carriers. When a signature is not needed, where are those packages left?

wherever the carrier's 'terms of service' dictate

again ~ NOT A BOD ISSUE

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Shane, we're twin high rises and each building has a Parcel Room. If no one's at home when any carrier attempts to deliver parcels, the deliverer puts them in the parcel room and places a notice of attempt to deliver on the resident's mailbox in a cluster in the mail room that's in each tower.

When residents want to pick up parcels, they must phone our (24/7) security staff, who unlocks the Parcel Room gives the resident the parcel, who signs a sheet saying they've received it. I think that all of our neighboring high rises do it the same way. None of us sign a waiver, but there's a general statement in our Rules & Regs that says the HOA is not responsible for the package, flowers, other perishables, etc. Our underground parking is on a fob system.

If you don't have 24/7 security on your premises, residents would only be able to pick up parcels during the time that staff is on the premises.

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

thanks carol! I will suggest this to the rest of the board and residents at the next board meeting. I am assuming that fedex and usps have fobs to enter the mail room right?

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Sorry, Shane, I'm not sure but my husband thinks that the deliverers do not have keys to the Parcel Rooms. So security or management must let them in. Since there's over 200 units here and also in ech nearby high rise, each delivery co. only comes by once a day so there's not a lot of coming and going to the Parcel Rooms. No residents have access to the Parcel Rooms.

I imagine that if parcels aren't picked up after a certain length of time, management contacts them with a reminder. It depends on your setup whether such an approach will work for you. And sometimes, a sub will make deliveries and leave them by the doors, but it's definitely forbidden.

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

sorry, not a key to the parcel room i mean a fob in order to get to the mailboxes to leave a notice on the mailbox of the recipient.. our mailboxes are on the second floor of our parking structure and are behind a transponder activated gate and fob access entry doors

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

ShaneJ,

Something to possibly consider – if not already being addressed - how does someone transport “a heavy” package from the HOA Office back to their Unit?

Will the Association provide a “hand truck” or equivalent that can be used (borrowed)?

Also, you (and others) might find interesting, this article on “package theft”:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/21/ups-employee-caught-stealing-ipad-delivery/?hpt=hp_t3

ShaneJ3 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

im sure we can get one of our maintenance guys to help with heavy packages provided they are working a the time but the majority of packages are not heavy. Crazy video though.. makes me wonder.. Alot of us are starting to invest in video recording peep holes on our doors. Hopefully we don't find out it is the carriers who are stealing..

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Because we're a large high rise HOA, we have a bellman's cart in each tower's lobby. But they're rarely needed for packages--usually just luggage, CostCo runs, etc.

UPS & FedEx have fobs to our lobby doors and elevators. There's one mailroom in each lobby, and the doors to the mailrooms remain open & unlocked.

If the USPS has a package too big for the mailboxes (cluster style), the postal worker leaves a note inside the box. One thing it says is that if the parcel isn't picked up in one week, it'll be returned to the sender. As i wrote earlier, FedEx sticks notes on the mailboxes if the recipient isn't home

A fair number of folks here have dry cleaning/laundry delivered. Those deliverers are given access to our lobbies and to the parcel rooms by our staff.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Because we're a large high rise HOA, we have a bellman's cart in each tower's lobby. But they're rarely needed for packages--usually just luggage, CostCo runs, etc.

UPS & FedEx have fobs to our lobby doors and elevators. There's one mailroom in each lobby, and the doors to the mailrooms remain open & unlocked.

If the USPS has a package too big for the mailboxes (cluster style), the postal worker leaves a note inside the box. One thing it says is that if the parcel isn't picked up in one week, it'll be returned to the sender. As i wrote earlier, FedEx, UPS stick notes on the mailboxes if the recipient isn't home

A fair number of folks here have dry cleaning/laundry delivered. Those deliverers are given access to our lobbies and to the parcel rooms by our staff. (Years ago, they were permiteed to have access to the elevators and residential corridors, but an earlier board halted that practice.)

AlexM1 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 287

Posted:

Ah but in most cases, it is FEDX or UPS that leaves the packages.

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