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BobA (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
In our CC&R's Lot is defined as "Lot shall mean and refer to any plat of land shown upon any recorded subdivision map of the property with the exception of the Common Area." Our new BOD states that this only means what is in plain view from the street. So if you have something in your backyard or in the garage but is in violation as long as its not in plain view is ok. Would that be the correct way to interpret this?
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Bob A-----No this would not be the correct way to view this..... The plat of land is the all the land that is clearly defined by a parcel ID number- tax number- and the meets and bounds shown/indicated on a survey....

As far as violations...I am confused by your wording as to "what is in your garage" ...To me that's private and off limits unless you have a meth lab or something "illegal"....Then no it's not off limits....In your back yard--Well if you know you are violating the rules or the CC&r's and just because they "can't" see it - does it make it right ? NO ...............Does it mean the BOD can walk around your property "looking" for violations " NO "..As Roger once said- there's smart and then there's stupid....Ever heard of TRESPASS..........LindaC
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Simple terms of what it means: You own the lot and the house it sits on everything else OUTSIDE that lot is common property and controlled by the HOA. Essentially, you own the House and the land under it. Most lots are the size of the land under the house and may include driveway/sidewalk area around the home.
The "common area" mostly is considered the "Grassy area" around the home (including back yard) and could mean the streets if they are private. The common areas are what the HOA controls and the CC&R's apply to. Basically, common area is owned by ALL the homeowners and your allowed "exclusive use" of a certain area around your home. This also means that a member of the HOA can't be denied access to anyone's "yard" since you are all part owners of that property. Can't put up no trespassing signs and may not be allowed to lock your gate access to the back yard. A HOA can request that gates be unopen at times of maintenance such as landscaping or repairs.
Keeping things out of clear view from the street may be simplifying things a little too much. The board is saying that they can issue a fine/violation if things can be seen from the street that are not uniform to the rest of the HOA property. Things such as garbage, company trucks, RV's, boats, or other such items that can be considered a "nuisance" to some. (I DID NOT SAY I AGREED THEY WERE NUISANCES!) If the rules determine such items are violations, the HOA can send notices. Our rules dictate that you can't have anything but WHITE shades in the front windows of the homes!
There are upsides and downsides to this situation. In our HOA, the property around the homes are so miniscule that owning the land out right was not worth it. If one person didn't mow their lawn, it would stick out like a sore thumb. Hence, why the HOA was formed to pay for landscaping year round. Owning the property around the home just doesn't add any additional value to our homes. If anything, it brought it down. By owning the land altogether, it keeps the land value up. That may not always be the case in every HOA. So each HOA is different.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
BobA - listen to and focus on LindaC3's post. she is correct.
BobA (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
If the Covenant states cannot store a boat on tthe Lot for no more than 48 hours and you keep it in your garage and the garage door is open majority of the time and the Boat is visible would that be ok.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
I would say yes Bob that would be an issue. Simply due to "asthetics". The view of the outside of your house is to be viewed with the garage door down. No one wants to see whats inside your garage. Leaving your door up exposes items and makes the home not look very neat.
It is also a concern that you could easily be robbed. I know leaving my own garage door open, that a robber can come by and break in. Once they break into one home and see how easy it is, they may break into others. Our HOA had that happen. One kid broke into a home, while the police were taking the homeowner's statement, he broke into another house down the road!
I wouldn't leave the garage door open. If I was on your board, I would most likely send you a notification requesting you keep the door down. It could encourage others that it is okay to keep boats when it isn't as well. Once one violator gets away with something then everyone wants to get away with it. Sorry, not the answer your looking for but it's the honest one!

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
BobA-- Let's see if we can help with your problem about STORING of your boat- Not the issue of how your home looks with the garage dr opened or closed..... A quick note about that-- If your Restrictions do not state the gargage dr must be closed EXCEPT for when entering or exiting then The BOD doesn;t have the authority to send you a letter telling you to keep it closed....

Storing of your boat..... If the CC&R's state NO STORING on your lot- then it means that..No storing..By keeping it your garage it is STORING and not allowed.....Seen or unseen it seems to me they do not allow for it to be physically on YOUR property...for more than 48 hours...Does your HOA have a central storage area for these "prohibited" items ???? LindaC
BobA (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Thanks linda,

No we do not have a central storage area and the Board President states that the garage is not part of the Lot only the visible portion outside. he also states that his and the BOD's interpretation is the only way and if someone disagrees then they are unreasonable. Being on the ARC this president has taken it upon himself to approve things and does not communicate with the committees. It has been brought to the BOD's attention but no response. The President is the one who is keeping the Boat in the garage. So the others who keep them outside do not feel they should move thiers. Thats just one scenario thats going on.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Bob-- Is there any way you can scan and send the group the actual wording of your CC&R that deals with the verbage about storing of the boat or vehicles on your Lot??? And let's look at it this way... before the structure was built it was a LOT....Like our wording states- may not be parked,maintained or stored on the residential lot...... Even if it's in the garage it is still on the LOT......I know you understand what I am saying but your BOD may be looking at it differently for self serving reasons.... I would have to say that all of you are in violation of the CC& R with regards to storage on the LOT.....LindaC
BobA (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Linda,

Below is the Covenant for Enforcement, Definition of lot and the Covenant for Boats and trailers.

Section 1^ Enforcement. The Association, the Declarant, OR any Owner, shall have the right to enforce, by any proceeding at law, or in equity, all restrictions, conditions, covenant:?, reservations, liens and charges now or hereafter imposed by the provisions of this Declaration. Failure by the Association or Declarant or by any Owner to enforce any covenant cr restriction herein contained shall in no event be deemed a waiver of the right to do so thereafter.

Section 5. "Lot" shall mean and refer to any plat of land shown upon any recorded subdivision map of the Property with the exception of the Common Area.

Section 10. No boats, pull trailer, travel trallera or campers may be maintained on any Lot for a period in excess of forty-eight hours.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Bob-- What a gray area of wording.....We have had this discussion many a time at out HOA...and we have an opinion given that because it states on the lot it is meant to infer including inside a structure which is upon the lot--- We are in the process of obtaining a more clear and concise ruling thru mediation at DPBR in Florida...You should be seeking an opinion from your HOA Attorney ,if you have one, for a more clear and concise wording of this Covenant.... As it is written it is open for different interpretations as I read it.....Sorry I could not be of more help to you with this..... Linda C
BobA (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Thanks for your help Linda,

This HOA has no attorney as the BOD feels they can take care of things themselves. The vagueness is the whole problem and unfortunately mediation or just a law suit to get it before a judge will probaly happen. There are homeowners who are talking about that route.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Be careful on a lawsuit unless it is taken a "class action". Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Please avoid taking the court route if all possible. It turns into a vicious circle that is nearly impossible to recover from on all sides.
If the majority doesn't like a rule, you have the option of rewriting or ammending your rules. A much better way of resolving the issue than suing. It take more effort and time but it really is the best option to pursue.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
JM2 (Oregon)
Posts: 439
Posted:
Bob:

One thing that a lot of CC&R's have is language regarding trailers, boats, etc. such as:

"excepting within areas designated for such purposes by the Board of Directors of the Association or within the confines of a garage or screened area, the plans of which comply with ordinances, shall have been reviewed and approved by the Architectural Review Committee prior to construction, and no portion of the same may project beyond the screened area."

Amending your restriction to allow storage in a garage or within a fenced area may be sufficient to allow the owners an "out" on the restriction, and then to clean up the neighborhood. Part of it depends on your local jurisdiction(s) codes on fences [some allow only a 6-foot fence, others allow higher; some may allow a higher fence with a special or conditional permit or variance], so that a 10-foot high fece could be used to screen an RV (there is a national builder with a local office that permits RV screening fences and RV storage pads on lots - as long as people are up-front about the need).

You might want to see if there is a CAI chapter locally; if so, they probably offer classes for board members and community members on education about HOA's.

Best of luck!

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

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