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GaryB11 (California)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Sorry for posting two topic. Tonight, after two hours of discussing the board's attempt to change a policy using a rule, the board raised a motion to "explicitly follow the CC&Rs." The motion failed to receive the required votes.

What does it mean when the board states on the record that it won't adhere to the CC&Rs? Putting aside the entertainment value of attending this meeting, it seems that the board is totally out of control. In addition, if the board won't agree to follow the CC&Rs, do the homeowners need to follow them?

Sorry if this one is too weird.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It all comes down to perspective and intent. I am not sure of the exact details of this. You may be taking this to the extreme to mean they aren't going to follow the rules. That may not be the case or intent of what they are saying. Like we have a rule in our CC&R's that says "Only white blinds are to be displayed in the front windows". Blinds are INSIDE the home which the owner has control of. The HOA the OUTSIDE appearance. We may say that we aren't going to follow the CC&R's on this because it's just kind of ridicolous. We all agree. So just short of changing and rewriting the entire CC&R's, we choose NOT to make this rule enforceable. I mean who in their right mind is going to force people to put up white shades in their own home?

Not saying this is what is happening in your HOA. However, trying to put this in perspective the the rules of the HOA is what the owners/members want to live by. The rules are changeable by majority vote. Some can take an entire re-write and update of the documents while others can be noted in the meeting notes to be recognized. As long as the membership is in agreement that's what they want. It's kind of a bit flexible culturally.


Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
so .... you would have no objection if i put up diagonally 'zebra striped' pink-black-yellow-purple blinds?

as a BOD you really need to actually follow and adhere to your 'governing docs'

will the next BOD also pick and choose what to enforce?

sheez ..... our jobs really are EASY, just follow the docs
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryB11 on 12/19/2012 11:20 PM
Tonight, after two hours of discussing the board's attempt to change a policy using a rule, the board raised a motion to "explicitly follow the CC&Rs." The motion failed to receive the required votes.

What does it mean when the board states on the record that it won't adhere to the CC&Rs?

I believe you are putting too much emphasis on what is happening.

The CC&Rs gives both the members and the Association the authority to enforce the covenants. However, the documents do not require a member or the Association to enforce (as Associations vary, check your governing documents to be sure).

Therefore, just as a member may choose not to enforce a covenant against their neighbors, the Board may choose not to enforce a specific covenant (or more than one covenant). I believe that this is what your Board was specifying and not that they were no longer going to comply with the covenants.

Note: each board is different and one board may chose to enforce something a previous board chose not to enforce.

If you really want to ensure that a covenant is never enforced, then the process would be to amend the covenants to remove that specific covenant.

Hope this helps,

Tim
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Gary,

I am not understanding just what happened. Could you clarify this?

Was this a meeting of the board or a meeting of the owners? You said "the board" made a motion but who was it that voted it down? Was this one board member who made the motion and the rest of the board failed to approve it or was it the owners who voted against it?

The board is already obligated to abide by the covenants that created the association, so a vote on the issue is meaningless. Most declarations allow each owner to remedy covenant violations through civil actions in court so anyone who demands strict compliance with the CC&R's can hire all the lawyers he can afford and prosecute any scofflaw he wishes without the consent or approval of the board.

How exactly did the board state on the record that it won't adhere to the CC&R's? I do not equate rejecting a meaningless motion with abandoning a fiduciary duty so there must be more to this.

GaryB11 (California)
Posts: 66
Posted:
I agree that the motion by the Board's President is meaningless. The president was trying to make a point about the board being so divided that they can't pass any motions.

The board has decided that it is impossible to amend the builder's CC&Rs. However, rather than taking the steps needed to overcome an apathetic community (mostly banks and 2nd homeowners), the board has informally changed the policies with written "guidelines" that modify the policies. As example, our CC&Rs prohibit overnight parking on driveways. The "Parking Guideline" permits parking on the driveway.

The HOA is in an uproar because they are disenfranchised. It has led to the board being divided, and one member resigning (5 man board). The president (who is the author of the guidelines and lives in a home with a driveway) was frustrated when his new parking guideline wasn't passed. Two board members voted against it. The resigning board member abstained. The two authors voted for it.

Once the vote was complete, the yelling started. The homeowners with driveways were very upset. At that point, the president called for a motion to follow the CC&R policies. Two voted for, two against, and one abstained.

I live on a public street within the association. The public street is specifically excluded in the CC&R from the parking policy. Recently, the city working with the author of the guidelines, has posted no parking signs except by permit on the public street. However, the city isn't planning to manage the permits. They expect the board to manage the permits. Unfortunately, the details for managing the permits were part of the new guidelines that failed.

Now, the city is going to replace the permit required signs with No Parking signs. I live on an island and as soon as the no parking signs go up, I have no place to park.

For years the board ignored the parking provision and everyone was happy. Then, someone decided that house values would go up if cars weren't on the street. Now, the city is mad, the homeowners are mad, and the board is a mess.

Hope this info helps. Happy Holidays!
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/20/2012 1:51 AM
The rules are changeable by majority vote...


This is not always true.

A homeowner who purchases a house covered by CC&Rs does so with the assurance that nothing in those CC&Rs will be changed except through the specified amendment procedure. This may require approval by 2/3 or even 100% of the membership.

There are numerous court cases where a homeowner has sued an HOA for failing to adhere to the covenants, and a mere majority vote may not be sufficient defense.
GaryB11 (California)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Thank you for your comments. I am considering asking the board to allow me to pursue an amendment to the parking use provision in our CC&Rs, using Civil Code 1355b. 1355b requires a 50% affirmative vote to modify the provision.

Would you please clarify your point about majority volte not being a sufficient defense? Also, if you have specific case law in California, I would appreciate it.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryB11 on 12/25/2012 11:39 AM
Would you please clarify your point about majority volte not being a sufficient defense?

Gary,

It's not complicated. California 1355(b)(2) says an amendment requires "the approval of owners representing more than 50 percent, or any higher percentage required by the declaration for the approval of an amendment to the declaration..."

So you need to check your governing documents for the amendment process specified there. Some associations require 2/3 approval. I have seen others that requite 100% approval for certain kinds of amendments.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Lawrence's emphasis is correct, Gary. Don't waste your time getting 50% to vote when you easily may need 2/3 as is our case, or even more. In addition, you'd need to comply entirely with CA Civil Code, e.g., sending ballots in double envelopes, appointing an inspector or inspectors of Election, etc. See davis-stirling.com. The good news if you try everything possible to get enough votes and fail, you can seek a change via the courts. But that sounds like a lot of work!

Sorry you're in this bind, Gary. I'm curious--what size is your HOA?
GaryB11 (California)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Appreciate all of your responses. Love this site for its well thought out answers.

Regarding your question about the size of the HOA, I don't really know. LOL There are 5 separate associations under the Master (one ring to rule them all). The HOA consists of single family dwellings, condos, and boat docks. The single family dwelling association is the one causing the issues.

Just to sum it all up:
1. Our CC&Rs state that you must have 66% affirmative vote to change a policy.
2. The BOD created a Parking Guideline that clarified (changes) the CC&R parking policy. The guideline contradicted all of the CC&R policies, and violates the bylaws.
3. In anticipation of passing the guidelines, the BOD tried but failed to negotiate offsite parking with another association, but got approval to take over management of the public street parking. On January 1st, the cars that park on the public street will have no place to park. Almost all are pickup trucks that won't fit in a garage.
4. The guideline was voted down by the BOD. The authors of the guidelines had counted on a third participant. But, he got so mad, he quit before the vote.
5. The management company indicated that the BOD will manage the public street despite the results of the vote.
6. One of the directors gave up and quit, so we no longer have a quorum. It's two against two.

It doesn't get any better than this.

Happy New Year!
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
I believe it is usually best to follow the documents. Our docs state that even if something was not enforced in the past, we would not prevent it from being enforced.

Our documents state a person must be 57 to move into a unit. However, we have allowed people who are only 55 to move in as the federal guideline for a senior community is 55.

Saying that it looks like we are going to need to get an eviction notice and the sheriff to remove an underage person who moved in under the false pretense that (according the to owner) it would be "working" on the unit to prepare it for sale.

FredO (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/28/2012 8:25 AM
I believe it is usually best to follow the documents. Our docs state that even if something was not enforced in the past, we would not prevent it from being enforced.

Our documents state a person must be 57 to move into a unit. However, we have allowed people who are only 55 to move in as the federal guideline for a senior community is 55.

Saying that it looks like we are going to need to get an eviction notice and the sheriff to remove an underage person who moved in under the false pretense that (according the to owner) it would be "working" on the unit to prepare it for sale.


Just be careful about this situation where not enforcing in the past means you can start enforcing in the future. I have read elsewhere on this forum that there are some court cases where the courts have ruled that the by not enforcing the CC&R's has more or less rendered the CC&R's as unenforceable.
However in that topic, I believe the issue was that the HOA was not enforcing a lot of the CC&R's which caused the judge to rule that way.

In regards to your HOA being for age 57 only, I do not think they can tighten up on the age requirement from the Federal gov't.
The first page of my owners manual has a cover page disclaimer that states that anything in the CC&R's the refers to race, color, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, 'age" , religious or handicapped status is to be overlooked and unenforceable as the Federal Laws for Housing take precedent over the HOA's CC&R's, by-laws and policies.

If your documents have a similar dis-claimer then no need to change or amend the documents. If not, then either a dis-claimer or amending the documents would be advised as an update to your documents. Just my opinion based on what I have seen fro living in three HOA's in the state of Calif over the years.

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