funiture on driveway

The new owner of a home that recently sold has placed 2 sofas on the driveway. It has rained several times since the sofas were placed there in August - it is now November. We have sent 2 letters on removing the sofas - first with 15 day request and the second advising we would have the trash company remove the 2 sofa and bill the removal to the delinquent HOA dues (new owner didn't pay dues at the closing) and then file lien which is due to be filed on Dec 1 for delinquency. Our docs of course don't say anything about sofas on a driveway, but it says we can have maintenance (I think they are now trash with the rain - but he may not think of them as trash but as personal property - even though the sofas are now collecting bird droppings, leaves, water, etc.) performed and billed to the homeowner and if not paid then we can file the lien. My concern is that he could sue us for removing the furniture from the driveway. We could request him to attend a meeting of the board to hear his response to removing the sofa's - we have never done anything like this - so what is the process if recommended. Also the title company should have collected the HOA fee at closing and they didn't and I have contacted them twice and they said they tried to collect from the old owners - but they were paid up when they sold. I called the new owner once after the notice, inviting him to the annual HOA and he didn't mention the past due or the sofa's on the driveway. What is your advice?

The new owners are NOT responsible for the old owner's HOA's dues. The new owners start over with a clean slate. So you can't go after them for any of the old dues.

Again with a declarative statement. If it was a foreclosure then yes the new owner is only responsible from when the title transferred. But if it was a regular sale and if the new owner was dumb enough to sign the papers without making sure there were no liens or debts against the property, then yes he is possibly on the hook for the past due amount. The assessment is not against Joe or Jane Blow it is against the property.

Helen contact your local city / county / township, unless you live in an unincorporated area, chances are the sofa's are violating some ordnance. If you are afraid of being sued, contact your HOA attorney to make sure everything is done properly, then haul the eyesores away.

Thank you for your response. The old owner was paid up on his HOA and sold at the end of July to a construction company that he had build his new home. The new owner (construction company) has not moved in and they likely won't move in and will put it up as a rental. The old owners moved out in July and the sofas are from the new owner - the construction company - the sofas appeared about mid to late August. They are in the driveway of the property - not on common ground. I will take those pictures as you suggested, I can use the notices to remove to document the time (even though I don't have an exact date of the arrival of the sofas.) Thank you so much for your help.

Helen,

I suspect that the new owner initially thought the trash company would pick them up. When that didn't happen, they probably just don't want to deal with it.

As you posted, the covenants typically don't specifically address sofa's in the driveway. However, I suspect that the covenants do address personal property being left outside the home when not in use or about property being used as a dumping ground. My Association uses the following language [emphasis added]:

"Section 11 No baby carriages, velocipedes, bicycles or other articles of personal property shall be permitted, when not in use, to remain outside the enclosed rear area of the premises. All such articles when left outside the enclosed area, will be impounded and a charge will be made for their return."

OR

Section 8 Neither the Common Area nor any Lot shall be used; or maintained as a dumping ground for rubbish, trash, garbage or other waste.

It's likely your documents has similar language addressing those issues. Since it's been three months, I suspect that the items are not personal property but trash/rubbish and that is the one you should focus on.

The Association should follow the procedure used for any other enforcement of a violation of the covenants.

Helen,

I am assuming the sofas are on his private property and not on the Town's right of way, if they own the streets. In our Assn the Town right of way can extend up the driveway as far as 10 to 15 feet.

If you have room somewhere within the Assn that is out of sight I suggest you have your maintenance people move the sofas to that site. As they are already outside and damaged it could be outside and covered to minimize the visual impact. Then notify the new owner he has 60 days to claim or remove them. If he doesn't, have the disposal company pick them up and bill the new owner. If he doesn't pay, lien him if your GD's allow it, ours do, it is called "alternative remedies" for us.
Paul T

Depends.... is this common area? Or someone's driveway?

If it is trash, knock on his door and talk to him about it. Ask him if its trash. Talk with him about getting it to the dump, and offer to do it for him if he cant, but you will charge.

If this is a single family house, you cant just take something off his property and toss it in the trash, legally. He could call the police and report personal property theft. And yes, you could be charged criminally.

I kind of like John's last thought. In the non winter months we have a problem with people, mostly renters, putting their junk out on the driveway, or to the side of it, with a "Free" sign on it. If it is on the right of way between houses the Town's maintenance crew will pick it up, eventually. Our Police Dept advised us that if you put a "For Sale" sign on it with a high price it will likely be stolen in a short time, end of problem. Leave no finger prints.

Paul T

Since it is private property, why not just turn him in to city code enforcement? They will go on his property and reclaim the couches or fine him until he moves them. I know from a debate in one town I lived in that inside couches aren't usually allowed to be used as outside furniture in most towns and codes will fine you and haul them off.

It is easy to sit in a chair and tell the head coach what play they should have run after a fumble....a little harder to be the person who actually has to make that decision. There is a lot of variables here, first and foremost who is going to pay for the removal of the sofas and how are you going to collect from the homeowner? That could end up being a big nightmare as you go down a road of trying to collect from them and spend even more money. If people become aware that the hoa will remove your trash at their cost and won't pursue you or will give up then you will have more free loaders. I agree at some point enough is enough and without being in the situation maybe they feel they want to take one more opportunity.

On the flip side, I keep hearing everyone says the documents allow us to go onto their property and remove/fix violations. Yeah they might, but the documents don't protect you from a crazy owner with a shotgun once you trespass.