HOA in Kansas

Started by ScottW8 • 9 replies • 4692 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ScottW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

As a homeowner in KS, I have concerns with my HOA board members in my community. Among many things, my HOA board is operating at a level that is very secretive and they do not share any information with any homeowner. They do what they want when they want period. Because of Kansas HB2472 they have finally responded somewhat. The meeting minutes were not posted in a timely manner, the HOA meetings were not advertised to everyone in a timely manner, the financial reports and checks for payment are still generated by the Property Manager instead of the Treasurer, etc. This is a direct violation of the HOA bylaws. When they do not like what is outlined in the bylaws, they simply add a new rule and bypass the bylaws. They hand write changes into the bylaws when they want to. They operate as if the only thing that counts is what matters to them. There is little to no communication to the homeowners and this is a cause of great concern. They are also charged in overseeing a budget of over $70,000 each year.

As an example: The board members are all friends and live on the same street. No one wants to run for the board because they fear retribution if they go against the other board members(friends). The current property manager/management company is also a homeowner in the community and is also a former HOA board member who stepped down as a board member to become the property manager. This does not seem appropriate to me and I questioned this relationship with the HOA board and they do not want to discuss this matter and see nothing remotely questionable with this.

I am at a complete loss as to what to do in this case. I keep hearing from people from different levels within the State of Kansas to contact my local legislators. I have tried and get no response. What is a citizen in the State of Kansas to do and who are we to contact? Please let me know what measures or actions I can take to address this issue.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Are you new to the HOA world? Your HOA operates much like many other HOA's I know. Of course your board members are going to be made up of "friends/neighbors" that is what makes up the pool of membership in a HOA. A HOA is YOU and your neighbors. It just so happens these people were able to get together to be voted in to represent the HOA. If you don't want them to, then run for office or elect someone else who wants to participate. If they are scared then that is their problem.

I don't know what you mean by timely manner? If the meeting take place monthly then the meeting notes from the last meeting may not be released until after next month's meeting. They have to ratify the meeting notes at the next meeting before releasing. However, some HOA's may release a copy shortly after their meetings if they feel comfortable with this. Procedural wise it would be after the next monthly meeting to be released.

Looking for help outside your HOA is just not the answer. The answer to your HOA issues lay within your HOA documents. A HOA is setup to manage/fund itself. No need to go outside your documents unless it is issues that effect an entire state of HOA members like rental and lien collections.

The Property manager does most likely write out the checks. The Treasurer position is just a "figurehead" position. It's just there to fill in the requirement to have a Treasurer offic position. The Treasurer may be responsible for giving financial reports and such. However, since your NOT self-managed and have hired a property manager, that manager acts as the Treasurer. So I wouldn't focus too much on wanting the Treasurer to write and sign the checks.

It is hard for a HOA to give up the control of their checkbook like they should. Let me put it this way...A HOA budget is like having your checkbook sitting on the dining room table wide open for your family to see. All your members of your family then has a say and right to decide on how that money is spent. You make the money and put it in the bank. How would you feel knowing you couldn't have any control and your vote is equal to everyone elses in spending? It's a natural tendancy to want to keep some parts of the budget secret so your kids won't demand an "XBox" and new games just because they see money in the account. Could never go to the store again with your kids and justify saying "No" down the toy aisle without them mentioning the money in the checkbook....

A little more education on how a HOA works is in order. Why is it so wrong that people who run the place are friends or friendly with eachother? I sure don't want a bunch of enemies and chaos in my HOA if I can avoid it. Maybe a bit more participation and you to can be a friend too.

Former HOA President

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

>No one wants to run for the board because they fear retribution if they go against the other board members(friends).

This is your problem.

It is not the responsibility of the government (state or otherwise) to interfere in contracts freely entered into by two parties. (Absent criminal behavior, that is). You can of course seek to have the HOA procedures enforced by court action. This will require real $ AND getting out in front as a plaintiff.

Your choices are (1) grow a pair (2) sell or (3) adjust to things as they are.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ScottW8 on 11/21/2012 8:17 AM

I am at a complete loss as to what to do in this case. I keep hearing from people from different levels within the State of Kansas to contact my local legislators. I have tried and get no response. What is a citizen in the State of Kansas to do and who are we to contact? Please let me know what measures or actions I can take to address this issue.

You may certainly contact your legislator and let them know of the issues you are having. They may or may not write additional legislation that may help prevent these issues in the future. However, they can do nothing to alleviate your issues now or even in the near future. This will have to come from you and the other members who feel the same way.

Typically there is no State or Federal government agency that can be contacted to gain assistance. Therefore, as others have posted, it's up to the membership to take care of the issues themselves. Allow me to explain:

In general, the CC&Rs (deed restrictions) are considered a civil contract between all owners of the properties that have the same deed restrictions attached. Associations are formed to maintain and/or operate the common area and fulfill any services (trash/recycling, snow removal, street lighting, etc.) required by the CC&Rs. Per the CC&Rs, the Association is also given the authority (in addition to the owners) to enforce the covenants, restrictions and conditions of the deed restrictions (contract). Typically, Associations are incorporated (usually as a nonprofit) as this provides them certain advantages. As a corporation they must comply with corporate laws in addition to any HOA/COA laws.

As you know there are civil laws and criminal laws. Criminal laws are enforced by the State. Civil laws are enforced by the individuals involved and they do this through the court system. Since contracts, hoa/coa laws and corporate laws are considered civil laws, there is typically limited governmental authorities to "oversee" or enforce those laws.

Sure the State corporation commission may fine for not filing the annual report on time. The IRS will certainly go after the Association for failing to file taxes. The District Attorney will prosecute if criminal laws are broken (example embezzlement). However if the Association doesn't comply with the Bylaws or a civil law, it's up to the membership to hold the Board accountable. The easiest way would be to recall the board or not reelect them to the Board. The more expensive option is to go through the court system.

This is why it's imperative that the members remain active in the development and actually take an interest in how the Association is governed. If apathy sets in (and, unfortunately it does), it becomes that much more difficult to change things when issues are discovered.

ScottW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

MelissaP1,

I am not new to HOA. If it was up to me, I would do away with them all together.

Is it OK to have the property manager write the checks when the bylaws state very clearly that only the President and Tresurer can? If the Board goes outside of the bylaws whenever they need to is that OK? When the bylaws state that their terms end and they don't agree or like it, they simply write in extended terms. Is that OK? They did not post meeting minutes or finacials for over 6 months. Is that OK? Is it OK to allow your friends to have unapproved house colors and sheds while at the same time they seek legal actions against others (and spend Association $$) who have done the same thing. This is an abuse of power.

The State needs to regulate these organizations and do in some states, for just these reasons. They control a significant amount of $$ and need to be accountable to follow the rules first and foremost. Set the example.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Scott

So far all have presented are accusations and wishes.

You need to cite specific things you believe they have done wrong.

A property manager handling the books/checks/budget is in itself not improper/illegal. I mean what are we paying them for?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ScottW8 on 11/21/2012 12:45 PM

Is it OK to have the property manager write the checks when the bylaws state very clearly that only the President and Tresurer can? If the Board goes outside of the bylaws whenever they need to is that OK? When the bylaws state that their terms end and they don't agree or like it, they simply write in extended terms. Is that OK? They did not post meeting minutes or finacials for over 6 months. Is that OK? Is it OK to allow your friends to have unapproved house colors and sheds while at the same time they seek legal actions against others (and spend Association $$) who have done the same thing. This is an abuse of power.

No it's not.

Is it OK for the membership to allow the board to do these things?

Same answer, no it's not.

Quote:

Posted By ScottW8 on 11/21/2012 12:45 PM

The State needs to regulate these organizations and do in some states, for just these reasons. They control a significant amount of $$ and need to be accountable to follow the rules first and foremost. Set the example.

It's the memberships job to hold the Board accountable. They do this by the following:

1) Submitting their name to serve on the board so there is a choice at election time. Everyone has an excuse for not submitting their name (My schedule is too busy, If they don't bother me, I won't bother them, I have children (let those who don't have children volunteer their time), Not now, maybe later, etc. etc. etc.). If people are unwilling to serve then those who are willing will be the ones making the decisions.

2) Volunteer to serve on Committees.

3) Read and understand their governing documents (many members never look at them until there is a problem).

4) Attend as many board meetings as possible. This way the member can see the decisions the Board has to make. They can offer input to those decisions and perhaps even offer another alternative to the issue the Board didn't see.

5) Read the Association newsletter, website, etc. and ask questions.

6) VOTE!

Quote:

Posted By ScottW8 on 11/21/2012 12:45 PM
The State needs to regulate these organizations and do in some states, for just these reasons. They control a significant amount of $$ and need to be accountable to follow the rules first and foremost. Set the example.

Although the laws vary by State, there is no State I'm aware of that actually regulates Associations. For one thing, they don't have the time. For another thing, these associations are ran by volunteers who typically try their best but may have never done that type of work before. You can require property managers and management companies to be licensed and re-certify that license every few years but not the volunteers.

On another note, I become frustrated every time I hear someone say that they want someone else (Federal, State, the Association, the Property manager, etc.) to do the job that they are unwilling to do themselves.

Board isn't following the rules? Vote them out of office or at least don't reelect them next time. Problem solved

Board not enforcing covenants? Each member has the same authority to enforce the covenants as the Association does, so step up and take the violator to court.

Don't like how the Board is spending your money? Serve on the Board yourself so you can make the decision on how to spend the money.

Membership is apathetic? Start talking to your neighbors and inform them of what is going on. Sometimes all people need is someone to take the lead. Will it be you or will you wait for someone else to do it for you?

TerryB6 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 38

Posted:

Scott,
I feel your pain brother. Going through similar issues here. I've decided to run, and do the best I can. Solicit support, proxies if possible. Educate yourself; the folks here are a great resource.
My wife's not happy, although she supports my decision. She's afraid of the repercussions that may be directed toward our home. For me, when I signed my name I gave my word to comply. I think everyone else should be held to the same standard. Good luck!

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ScottW8 on 11/21/2012 8:17 AM
As a homeowner in KS, I have concerns with my HOA board members in my community. Among many things, my HOA board is operating at a level that is very secretive and they do not share any information with any homeowner. They do what they want when they want period. Because of Kansas HB2472 they have finally responded somewhat. The meeting minutes were not posted in a timely manner, the HOA meetings were not advertised to everyone in a timely manner, the financial reports and checks for payment are still generated by the Property Manager instead of the Treasurer, etc. This is a direct violation of the HOA bylaws. When they do not like what is outlined in the bylaws, they simply add a new rule and bypass the bylaws. They hand write changes into the bylaws when they want to. They operate as if the only thing that counts is what matters to them. There is little to no communication to the homeowners and this is a cause of great concern. They are also charged in overseeing a budget of over $70,000 each year.

As an example: The board members are all friends and live on the same street. No one wants to run for the board because they fear retribution if they go against the other board members(friends). The current property manager/management company is also a homeowner in the community and is also a former HOA board member who stepped down as a board member to become the property manager. This does not seem appropriate to me and I questioned this relationship with the HOA board and they do not want to discuss this matter and see nothing remotely questionable with this.

I am at a complete loss as to what to do in this case. I keep hearing from people from different levels within the State of Kansas to contact my local legislators. I have tried and get no response. What is a citizen in the State of Kansas to do and who are we to contact? Please let me know what measures or actions I can take to address this issue.

Being from the state of Kansas I can tell you this (and you already know it)...it is against the law to hold meetings without giving notice to the membership. It is also illegal for board members to assemble and discuss HOA business event if they live on the same street. That is a gray area and i wouldn't get to bent out of shape unless it is clearly deliberate and on multiple occassions.

your relief I am afraid is probably a court of law. This is a civil matter and there isn't really any set-up that i am aware of in Kansas other than this. I hate to send threatening letters unless you are prepared to back it up but perhaps the board isn't aware of the new rules or the magnitude of them. They are also probably unaware that if they knowlingly violate a law their insurance will probably not defend them.

I also would question the appointment of a resident as your property manager unless multiple bids were solicited and they were the most qualified.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Scott, along with Tim, you need to gather together likeminded members of your HOA, learn your governing documents and state laws together, and either mount a recall campaign or start getting yourselves elected to the Board. We took the latter path here. First, we got on some committees & simultaneously engaged in four months of study and meetings among us "rebels," 2 elected on Board of 7, at the next election, we had a majority of "our people" voted in.

That was six years ago and our Boards since then have followed our docs & state law completely. That plus really good communication with members and a fine PM completely turned around a horrible situation much like what you describe.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here