💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

MichaelD16 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
This is in California. I am a past board member of an old, large, 55+, self-managed HOA. After much struggle, I have managed to get the current board to agree to look into the feasibility of changing over to a professional management company. They have formed a committee, but the board member-chairperson has barred me from serving on the committee... saying that "because I brought the issue up... I cannot serve". This runs counter to all my background in the private and public sector. Generally speaking most of the board seems to be against the notion of changing management styles and is supporting my NOT serving on this committee. What to do? How to avoid the "stacked-deck" outcome of this committee? Thank You.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Irregardless if you hire a Management company, the HOA board has the final say. The management company would do what the HOA board tells them to do as they are a contractor to the HOA. So hiring a management company isn't always the right solution. If your saying you want to turn the whole HOA over to a managment company, then that means giving up yours and everybody else's rights to making ANY decisions or having any control. The Management company would make all the decisions, make the rules, and raise the dues to their pleasing/requirements.

I can see why they don't want you on this committee. You have already brought up the idea and they are pursuing the option as you requested. Let the committee do their job and decide on what you suggested. What's the purpose of you being on the committee unless it's to bully the other members into your idea? Let the people decide now what they want. That's what HOA's are supposed to work...by majority membership decision.

Former HOA President
MichaelD16 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for your reply. We have a history of the board being driven by the same "retreads" and a very tight relationship with our long time Administrator. As has been said often on these forums, FRIENDSHIPS seem to rule the day more than guidelines, Docs, and even laws -(hard to prove). Much gets done in executive sessions that is not appropriate and there is an air of secrecy and hidden agenda.
- I don't want to push it "my way"... I am solely concerned with openness and honesty. The initial research done indicated that the owners MAY save as much as $100,000/yr. - (probably less). The way things are going... many here think we should operate more like a business vs. the good-old-boy club that gives our administrator 10% raises without good reason or research. As in many places there is a tremendous amount of board-decision history that is questionable. It has gotten so bad that an owners group has formed in order to try and provide referenced, factual information to the community on the boards doings. Anyone not "drinking the cool-aid" is, of course a pariah, scorned and negative rumors often start about them. Just a typical HOA.... I am too old and cannot afford to sell... but will never recommend being in an HOA again.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Michael

Ask when the committee meeting are and make it a point to attend. I agree you should be on the committee but at the least you should be able to watch and listen to the meetings.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelD16 on 11/12/2012 12:28 PM
Thanks for your reply. We have a history of the board being driven by the same "retreads" and a very tight relationship with our long time Administrator. As has been said often on these forums, FRIENDSHIPS seem to rule the day more than guidelines, Docs, and even laws -(hard to prove). Much gets done in executive sessions that is not appropriate and there is an air of secrecy and hidden agenda.
- I don't want to push it "my way"... I am solely concerned with openness and honesty. The initial research done indicated that the owners MAY save as much as $100,000/yr. - (probably less). The way things are going... many here think we should operate more like a business vs. the good-old-boy club that gives our administrator 10% raises without good reason or research. As in many places there is a tremendous amount of board-decision history that is questionable. It has gotten so bad that an owners group has formed in order to try and provide referenced, factual information to the community on the boards doings. Anyone not "drinking the cool-aid" is, of course a pariah, scorned and negative rumors often start about them. Just a typical HOA.... I am too old and cannot afford to sell... but will never recommend being in an HOA again.

Is not your "Administrator" in reality not your "Property Manager"?

Does not the BOD/majority seem to like the way things are?

Maybe the answer is changing the BOD.

MichaelD16 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank You... Yes, that is my plan B. Although the director in charge has been known to not make it publicly known when meetings are scheduled. This being done to keep out the "troublemakers". Over the years here it has been very frustrating to learn that the solution to problems with the HOA are so limited. Participate ! "Get on the board" ... Been there, did that, came away with a commemorative blood-stained t-shirt for a souvenir and some aggravated health issues. Regardless of hierarchical venue... it is so saddening to experience people in power abusing their authority... and having so few real, PRACTICAL means for redress. Last week we had some members take the association to court trying to resolve a voting issue on the recall of a director.... interesting... learned some things... but to have to go to these lengths? it is so easy to be let down by Type A personalities in power. I guess I may just have to lower my expectations and sell stuff to keep up with the dues. Again Thanks...
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Michael, Is your "administrator" a certified property manager, or what? Is s/he onsite & full time?

Take Brad's advice. In Cali, if a majority of Board is on the committee, it must hold open meetings, with the agenda posted four days in advance, and an open forum must be included. Do your best to get your neighbors to join you.

What size/type of HOA are you? Saving 100K sounds like a lot!

Melissa is wrong about MC's--unless the board is totally ignorant and lazy!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What was wrong about what I said about a MC? Your board is the one that is to give orders to the MC NOT the other way around. IF that is not happening in your HOA, then that is a problem.

Handing over your HOA to a Management company works like an apartment complex. Those are run by Management companies. I don't recall any renter in an apartment having any say in how the property is run.

Those are the two ways a Management company works. They either are paid contractors or own/operate the place.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 11/12/2012 5:21 PM
Michael, Is your "administrator" a certified property manager, or what? Is s/he onsite & full time?

Take Brad's advice. In Cali, if a majority of Board is on the committee, it must hold open meetings, with the agenda posted four days in advance, and an open forum must be included. Do your best to get your neighbors to join you.

What size/type of HOA are you? Saving 100K sounds like a lot!

Melissa is wrong about MC's--unless the board is totally ignorant and lazy!


How is Melissa wrong?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Sorry, Melissa, you aren't wrong IF a Board is lazy & stupid. I don't think that Michale, though, wants to turn all governance over to a MC-- at least that's not my impression.
MichaelD16 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Lets see if I can supply more detail:
- Yes, our Administrator is our associations employee and she is the equivalent of a Management person here 40 hrs/wk. She has one full time employee-assistant and a part-time transcriptionist. There are almost 800 units in our Programed Unit Development. We have a 9 member board that meets every two weeks for at least 3 to 4 hours then typically goes into an Executive Session for an hour or so. It seems that the board is both doing a large part of the administrators job and coincident with this, micro-managing the place. Our administrator spends A LOT of time in meetings as we have a lot of committees. From our last years budget it costs us over $200k per year to run the front office. This does NOT include anything else other than expenses related to operating the Administrative functions. Our annual budget is almost $3 million. The administrator makes almost $80k/yr.
- The bottom line, as always, is money. It is commonly presented by owners at board meetings and any other public forum that many in our 55+ retirement community are having difficulty keeping up with living expenses. While the board laments this... they are plainly trying to stifle/control the outcome this issue of looking into a management company to possibly save money. Regardless of the chance to save some $ it is seen as a threat to the administrators job. As mentioned previously... the administrator has over the years gotten the stature as "a wonderful person" whom we cannot do without. Between the Sacred Friendships with the entrenched retreads on the board and what seems to be the typical senior citizen fear of change... she has endured despite a few large screw-ups.
- We did try a recall of the key problem member of the board. The board retaliated by starting a recall against the two board members that were "troublemakers" It turned out to be a waste of time and money. We learned that next time.... RECALL the ENTIRE board ! Even if there are some reasonable people on the board. All this, of course, makes it hard to get any new people interested in running for the board.
- I hope I answered some questions... Thanks !
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I may be wrong but I don't really see a problem here except not liking the administrator. Sounds like you have a board that is very active in running the place. The administrator's job is to do what that board asks them to do. They may co-mingle a bit because they are involved in the same business but it sounds like things are operating.

What is wrong with friendship in running a HOA? Seriously, I hear that complaint all the time. Sorry I don't buy it. If I am working with someone, I want it to be on good terms with established boundaries. Just because you see people talking outside of a meeting or are friends doesn't mean they do their jobs less or get more. It just means that there is an established relationship due to business that sometimes is done nicely. Did you want your HOA run by people who don't care and just ask for the check?

If you want to do something, then get bids for a new administrator. You have every right to find a new adminstrative contractor and put that in front of the board. THe contract should come up yearly anyways. That is what you should be doing instead of trying to make the HOA redo their entire business strategy. Recommend someone else for the job and do the leg work for it. That's the best and fairest way to make sure there is competition for the job.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mel

It is a cost item to the OP. He does not like that it costs over $200K for the "front office" people. Like many, his income might not be keeping up with/exceeding his "costs" and he is looking at ways to "control" his costs.

I have no issues with this. My issue is people comong out and asking questions that beat around the bush versus aks outright.

A simple Yes or No question. Do you still beat your spouse?

Salt or no salt.

MichaelD16 (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions. It has been interesting to get different perspectives on the situation. Best Regards....

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here