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ElainaC (South Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We purchased a home in 2006, we sought all the correct avenues to obtain Arch Review and approvals for our landscaping, Pergola and extended driveway. We were given written letter approvals and approvals through e-mail with no deadlines to begin or complete the projects. In September of 2012 we began extended our back patio and building the Pergola to the specifications in the Arch plans submitted and HOA President began to notice us of our build without approvals. In conversations regarding the notices the Pres admitts that during his past three years all the architectural approvals for the entire community where lost after he "fired" the management company. Pres now states we must "rebuild" his database. We have built structures and had landscaping installed such as a shed since 2008. We provided the plans and approvals but this has not satisfied the Pres. Can we sue for Breach of Contract for the HOAs failure to acknowledge past architectural approvals by the Declarant (Builder) when the Board was under their control? Does an HOA have a duty to maintain the Architectural documents once a homeowner has submitted plans and been approved?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElainaC on 11/08/2012 11:51 AM
Can we sue for Breach of Contract for the HOAs failure to acknowledge past architectural approvals by the Declarant (Builder) when the Board was under their control?

Do you have proof of the approval?

If you have proof, there should be no issue. If you don't have proof of approval it becomes a we say, they say argument. In those type of cases, if an agreement can not be reached, the decision will have to come through a court of law.

You said you received written authorization. I would simply submit a copy of the approval.

Quote:
Posted By ElainaC on 11/08/2012 11:51 AM
Does an HOA have a duty to maintain the Architectural documents once a homeowner has submitted plans and been approved?

Yes, the Association has a responsibility to maintain Association records.

However, people are human and things happen. I recall reading a post where one person discovered Association files that were put out with the trash because the person who had them was moving and no one agreed to take custody.

My Association had a secretary who thought there were too many records cluttering up the house and shredded 20 plus years of records. There were no electronic copies.

The Association is ran by volunteers. Since you now see an issue, perhaps you will volunteer to be the keeper of the records so this doesn't happen again.

BTW, did you keep your copy?
The owner, just like the Association has a responsibility to maintain records.

ElainaC (South Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Problem is we submitted the copies of our approvals and the Pres does not accept the approvals and requests that we resubmit our plans and docs. In some cases, (i.e., the shed) has been built since 2008. We are being fined daily until he is satisfied with our copies. He had informed us that all we had to do was produce the docs and it would all go away. We did and we are still being fined. He has threatened that if we do not sign his new docs and arch requests that he will sue us for, and I quote "not assisting the HOA in re-building his database".
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Ask for a meeting in front of the entire Board to resolve the issue.
The President is one individual, not the entire board.
Decisions are made by the Board

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
Elaine - Do you still have your plans that you originally submitted? If you do just tell the Board they can make copies of your plans or you can make copies and send to them. If you don't have the original plans tell them you don't have them. A fire destroyed their records and the Board is only trying to rebuild their records. Then resubmit plans to do the work you want to do now. Fines can add up and then this turns into a real expense and attorney costs.
ElainaC (South Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We have requested a hearing and produced all documents at the hearing. We had copies of everything we submitted and had all the written approvals for all upgrades from 2008 - 2009. The Pres (outside of the Board) says the original documents are not good enough. He wants us to resumbit on his new forms so he and his Board (hand picked golf buddies) can come onto our property inspect what we built four years ago and tell us to tear down a shed, custom brick walkways, a vegetable garden, fruit trees and a two french tea rose gardens which have all been installed on the property since 2008. We have built nothing which was not approved in content and color for the community. Nothing was built outside the community paint scheme, brick scheme or planted any tree which was not already on the property or without prior approval.

The Pres is fining us and threatening lawsuit because we will not resubmit documents on his new 2012 forms after we received written approvals in 2008 and 2009. He had even told us if we attended the hearing and produce all that we had to help rebuild his computer database that the fining and notices would stop but copies of the written past approvals where not good enough for him. He wants to reinspect what we built four years ago and make us tear it down because he owns the property on the plateau above us and can see down into our backyard and we beleive it obstructs his veiw of the forrest below.

We did not build anything other than what we submitted for and received approvals for. It is beyond me how a Board can lose all the documents for the entire community but yet I am the only homeowner who is being forced to resubmit documentation after we received written approvals and even built approved upgrades four years ago.

How can a homeowner be sued by the Board for not assisting them in re-building their computer database of Architectural Documents when it is their duty to maintain and keep documents. Especially when this Pres fired the Management company, signed a receipt for all documents and did not check to see whether the community arch reveiw, plans and approvals for the entire community were in the boxes of documents turned over personally to him. He has not even admitted this fact to the other homeowners. Shouldn't this be his duty to inform the homeowners of the loss?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
If he sues, just counter sue back. It's cheaper. Plus has to have board approval to sue for this. You already are stating your defense so tell it to a judge if it goes that far. Threatening of a lawsuit is just frivolous talk of idiots unless it's truly important. If it is truly important, then someone actually files the paperwork to do it. Just make sure to respond to the request when or if it arrives.

A HOA bringing a lawsuit against anyone is kind of pointless and expensive unless the law requires this kind of action in regards to fining. Which many states do not allow the use of fines to be the basis of liens or foreclosures. Plus your HOA has to have an established fining schedule to enforce any fines. Another area I am sure your inept President has overlooked...

Former HOA President
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Elaina

Your board in my opinion is stupid...if you are producing the documents where a previous board approved it there is absolutely nothing they can do. If the board continues to fine you there your only recourse ultimately will be through the courts. One step I would take before that is to write the insurance company and let them know what is happening...they may tell the board if they continue down this path of stupidity they will not be covered by insurance.

Ultimately i don't see any way you lose this case, it sucks that you may eventually have to go to court over it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Elaina,

Some Boards (or individuals on the Board) do believe that they can bully the membership. Based on your posts, it appears that this is happening to you.

My advice, contact an attorney to write a letter to the board explaining that the previous approvals would stand up in court and that the fines are inappropriate. This may turn the board around. Unfortunately, it may also have the opposite affect and have them dig in and escalate the issue into a legal battle.

However, if the board isn't being reasonable there may be few options available.

Tim
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Get everything in writing. If the board said you just needed to prove you had approval and you did, that should have been the end of it.

You should not be required to re-submit on their forms. That is the board's job and the board lost the documents.

You are being harassed. Are other homeowners being harassed?

They do not have the right to rescind the approval of another board. If they wished to do so, they should take that board to court. If they have a problem with lost documents, they should take the person in charge of them to court. They should not be harassing you. You've done due diligence.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElainaC on 11/09/2012 4:46 AM
We have requested a hearing and produced all documents at the hearing. We had copies of everything we submitted and had all the written approvals for all upgrades from 2008 - 2009. The Pres (outside of the Board) says the original documents are not good enough. He wants us to resumbit on his new forms so he and his Board (hand picked golf buddies) can come onto our property inspect what we built four years ago and tell us to tear down a shed, custom brick walkways, a vegetable garden, fruit trees and a two french tea rose gardens which have all been installed on the property since 2008. We have built nothing which was not approved in content and color for the community. Nothing was built outside the community paint scheme, brick scheme or planted any tree which was not already on the property or without prior approval.

The Pres is fining us and threatening lawsuit because we will not resubmit documents on his new 2012 forms after we received written approvals in 2008 and 2009. He had even told us if we attended the hearing and produce all that we had to help rebuild his computer database that the fining and notices would stop but copies of the written past approvals where not good enough for him. He wants to reinspect what we built four years ago and make us tear it down because he owns the property on the plateau above us and can see down into our backyard and we beleive it obstructs his veiw of the forrest below.

We did not build anything other than what we submitted for and received approvals for. It is beyond me how a Board can lose all the documents for the entire community but yet I am the only homeowner who is being forced to resubmit documentation after we received written approvals and even built approved upgrades four years ago.

How can a homeowner be sued by the Board for not assisting them in re-building their computer database of Architectural Documents when it is their duty to maintain and keep documents. Especially when this Pres fired the Management company, signed a receipt for all documents and did not check to see whether the community arch reveiw, plans and approvals for the entire community were in the boxes of documents turned over personally to him. He has not even admitted this fact to the other homeowners. Shouldn't this be his duty to inform the homeowners of the loss?

Check your local/state and CC&R regarding fines. Did you request a hearing in writing?

Did the board follow all the required steps to fine?

What are the legal requirements (state and CC&R) for fining? By this I mean, was it on an agenda at a meeting that met all the state and CC&R requirements?

We were also threatened with fines. We asked if the board could produce the rule/CC&R, but they could not.

If the president signed for the documents, then he is responsible for them. You are not.

Fining is a matter for the board to decide and they must follow their own rules in order to do so.

Further, look to see what your state/CC&R say regarding arbitration/mediation. Before you get to a lawyer, you might be able to save money this way. In my area (Los Angeles), free arbitrators are provided.

If you know and understand your state laws and CC&R requirements, then you should make a written challenge. I would go in this order:

1. When did your unit become a topic in the board meetings?
2. Ask to have the meeting minutes provided for that meeting.
3. Did the board to due diligence: search for the documents and without the documents, did they ask the former board members who approved? Did they look and find the minutes?
4. Question why you were not informed that this was the topic of discussion at a board meeting?
5. Are other members being challenged for approved items? If not, why? If so, who?
6. Ask to have the meeting minutes produced for the meetings where your work was approved. Once you make a written request there should be a time limit for the production. If the board refuses check to see if you can take them to court for production of documents. In California, you can go to small claims court for document production. I could request a copy of the document the president signed with the former management company to indicate possession.

Also check the statute of limitations or better yet, ask the board to find it as part of their due diligence and tell you what the statute of limitations. You can then ask your fellow neighbors if they have anything that is still within the limitations that might become a topic of this board.

The board needs to answer these questions and requirements. Further, if the board voted on this investigation, you would want to see how the voting went. Voting record should be a part of the minutes. If you can show who on the board was voting to do things that aren't legal, you have plenty of ammunition for a recall of those members.

We were asked to attend a hearing, but the board didn't meeting two of the four requirements (state and CC&R). We did not attend because in attending we would have recognized the legitimacy of the hearing. We asked for meeting minutes and newsletters prior to the hearing. The board refused to provide the documents. They had a hearing. We were "fined" but refused to pay. They took us to court. They lost. I should add that the board committed fraud by requiring a fine that was well over the actual cost of their "repairs."

If the board fails to meet requirements for a hearing/meeting and you attend, you must voice a formal protest and this should also be listed in the minutes. If it is not listed, you should also give a written objection.

I noticed you have conversations. When things get to this level, you need a paper trail. After every conversation, follow-up with a letter/email. The letter should be addressed to the board.

I would wait for the board to take you to court to collect your fines. In California, it would be small claims. If you have requested (formally and in writing) documents, and the board has failed to produce, this gives you a stronger position in court when they take you regarding the hearing and fines. Be sure to also have a copy of the hearing minutes and if you see some discrepancies, make a written objection and send it to the board secretary.

We also followed all the rules but some boards feel they are above state laws.

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