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StephenW7 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our condo documents provide our HOA the authority to enter units "after reasonable notice to to owner" except in emergency situations for our annual fire sprinkler inspection. The time of year varies so we can't even expect it during a particular quarter.

Is one week considered 'reasonable?' If I am on a two week vacation, would I need to pay the association a fee to reschedule an annual fire sprinkler inspection if I cannot be present to allow entry?

Thank you in advance!
JohnH38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 100
Posted:
Do you leave a key with a manager or a neighbor to conduct the inspection in your absence? If not you ought to pay for the inspection, JMO.

John
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
"Reasonable" is used in many legal documents. Ultimately it is up to a court to interpret. I don't think you want to go that far.

In this case: everyone knows there will be an annual inspection around a particular time, and everyone knows it can't be exactly predicted. So it seems to me that a week is not UNreasonable, since if you are going to be away you can arrange to leave a key.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 11/04/2012 7:09 AM
"Reasonable" is used in many legal documents. Ultimately it is up to a court to interpret. I don't think you want to go that far.

In this case: everyone knows there will be an annual inspection around a particular time, and everyone knows it can't be exactly predicted. So it seems to me that a week is not UNreasonable, since if you are going to be away you can arrange to leave a key.


I would agree with this.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephenW7 on 11/04/2012 6:15 AM
Our condo documents provide our HOA the authority to enter units "after reasonable notice to to owner" except in emergency situations for our annual fire sprinkler inspection. The time of year varies so we can't even expect it during a particular quarter.

Is one week considered 'reasonable?' If I am on a two week vacation, would I need to pay the association a fee to reschedule an annual fire sprinkler inspection if I cannot be present to allow entry?

Thank you in advance!

I have seen landlord-tenant statutes that peg reasonable notice as being 48 hours.

If you are going to do an annual inspection, there is no reason why you cannot schedule it months in advance and make the date known so that those who will be away may make arrangements to allow you to enter.

Since the CC&R's give the association the right to enter with reasonable notice, you should go ahead and enter on the announced date instead of rescheduling for another date. Have a locksmith open doors you have no keys for.

How many units normally cannot be entered due to owner absence? Is the number of unavailable units so significant that it prevents the building(s) from passing inspection? Just curious, but who requires the inspection and who conducts the inspection? Why is it that they cannot schedule a date for an "annual" inspection? What is wrong with telling the inspector you have no access to certain units due to his failure to schedule the inspection? Let the inspector bear the burden of giving notice to individual residents and let him deal with the consequences of not giving enough notice.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Stephen who is doing the inspecting, the local Fire Dept or a contractor hired by the HOA? The longer the notice the better, since I'm guessing you are a highrise a countdown poster near the mailboxes or in the elevators stating the date and counting it down. Four weeks to annual sprinkler inspection, three weeks etc. with a notice to contact the MC to make arrangements for entry if you are not going to be home. If you enter units with no one home, do you hire someone like an off duty police office to accompany the inspector in case the homeowner tries to claim damage or theft?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
We're a 200+ unit high rise twin towers and provide ample notice for 3 annual inspections that require the firms involved to go into units. The notices are in the mail rooms, posted in the elevators and are on our website. A notice also goes under doors a week or so before the inspections.

All except three of our Owners have signed a legal document whereby they gave a key or door lock combination to Management that's kept in a safe in the event no one is at home. A staffer, usually a security officer, accompanies the technicians during these inspections.

More importantly, the keys permit staff to enter units in cases of emergency without notice. Here, this tends to be leaks into units that come from "somewhere" above. Staff contacts whomever is home, but if no response they may enter the unit to find the source of the leak, e.g., overflowing toilet.

The three who haven't given Management a key are aware that in cases of emergency, their door may need to forcibly entered. If, say, a leak source of a leak isn't in that particular uni, the HOA pays to repair the door. If the leak source is in that unit, the Owner pays. Luckily, this had not happened in the eight years I've lived here.

This works very well in our HOA.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Stephen,

Several years ago my wife and I managed a self storage facility. One of our buildings was sprinklered because it had an interior hallway. Most, if not all, the sprinkler heads were located inside storage units and we had no access to them. The inspector did not need access. He flushed out the lines to remove any rust, tested for proper pressure, and buttoned it all back up.

In thinking back about this, I cannot imagine what he would have done inside of a unit even if we had access. He was certainly not going to start a fire to see if the sprinklers worked. The only thing I can imagine that an inspection inside units would do is allow the inspector to verify that no one has tapped into the sprinkler pipe to hook up their ice-maker.

BTW, most of what I thought I knew about sprinklers came from watching movies and TV shows where all the sprinklers go off and flood the entire building. Not so. Only the sprinklers in the immediate area of a fire will go off and most systems run out of pressure if more than 5 or 6 sprinklers operate.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that our city requires an annual inspection of these sprinklers. The inspectors make sure they that haven't been painted (yes, that has happened--in more than one unit), that they aren't blocked (an owner had installed some kind of soffit that blocked operation of the sprinkler head), etc.
StephenW7 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
management will not use a key, so that is not an option. If we know about it in advance we could leave a key with a neighbor but without prior knowledge we must pay.
StephenW7 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
The time is not around a particular time. The inspection has been in April, October, and November in prior years. There does not seem to be a pattern at all. There is nothing in writing on the topic of timing and the only verbal communication has been "annually" and it hasn't even been done every year. If there was a pattern, I could deal with that.

I understand that it's actually a legal question, I was hoping to get some consensus on what is "customary" rather than an 'exact' answer. Since it's an 'annual inspection' it's likely that they have more than a week's notice.
StephenW7 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you for all the comments; This has been educational. It sounds like a week is within reason for a court proceeding, but commonly more notice is given when available for common courtesy and respect.
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
StephenW7

You wrote “Our condo documents provide our HOA the authority to enter units "after reasonable notice to owner" except in emergency situations”- then you add the words “for our annual fire sprinkler inspection”. Would you be willing to post the exact words from your documents? Do your documents reference sprinkler inspection?

IMO reasonable notice depends upon the reason for entry.

I have seen words such as: The Association may, in the event of emergency or to make repairs or maintain the Common Elements, Limited Common Elements or portions of a Unit for which the Association is responsible, enter into a Unit on notice to the Owner appropriate under the circumstances.

How many Units have to be entered? 50 Units, 500 Units? Can all the inspections be completed in one day?

If it were our Association, – we are self managed – for a sprinkler inspection (we do not have sprinklers), we would probably advise our residents, in writing, a month or so in advance, that the Board is in the process of setting up the “inspection”. And then once the date is “confirmed” we would then make arrangements for entry, etc, - probably a week or so in advance.

Also you post “management will not use a key”. Why not?

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