Our pool - back from the dead?

Started by SheliaH • 10 replies • 1431 views

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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

A month or so ago, I asked everyone for their suggestions on what to say to homeowners in a door to door campaign to collect ballots on our swimming pool (close it for good or repair and reopen it). Each board member was to pick a group of homeowners and contact them so no one would be overwhelmed with work and board members would visit the homeowners in pairs.

At this point, it appears that we won't collect the number of votes needed to close the pool permanently, as the Board recommended. One board member noted that a lot of homeowners didn't bother to vote AT ALL and wondered if we could just count the number of ballots that were returned (the majority said close it). I checked with our attorney, who said nope, based on our CCRS (75% majority is needed), not voting at all would be considered a vote to keep the thing.

Unless we get a rash of ballots before our next meeting (likely the last one for 2012), it appears we'll have to fix and reopen, and we did put some money in the 2013 budget for the pool, as we figured we'd know soon enough what we'd spend it on.

I figure that if we have to do repairs, we may as well look into modifications that can help us save money, so I was wondering - have any of you done a renovation of your pool? If so, what sort of issues did you run into and how were they addressed? Our pool was built in 1972 and has been closed for 3 years, so who knows what we'll run into (we already know the decking is in such bad shape it'll have to be replaced). Thanks for your suggestions and comments!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Sheila

here is my suggestion, have a couple of reputable companies come in and give you budgetary estimates on what it would cost to make the pool operational again. Obviously it will be a rough number as some things may be undetectable until you get into it.

Take that information and hold a couple of town hall meetings with your residents and get a little bit of a flavor for what people want to do. Based upon the meetings you either need to make another run within your community to close the pool or you need to potentially prepare to fix it and maybe do a special assessment. I wonder if the people knew the cost and potential ramifications if it would change their mind. You will have people on both sides of the issue, if the board really wants to close it then use those people to get out door to door, don't rely on just the board members.

MikeS1
Posts: 521

Posted:

Having been involved with our pool for about 5 years now, I can tell you that a pool is like owning an old wooden boat. If you don't keep up with maintenance issues, it can eat a hole in your wallet. You know that you might not have to replace the concrete deck unless it's really undermined. There are some very good products that you can use to resurface the deck (Kool deck is one of them). They have been using it in Florida and other states for a long time. You might not have to replace the entire deck.

Make sure that you're aware of the new ADA laws with respect to pools regarding ADA lifts, ramps and egress. A lot of the laws have changes and if you start modifying things, you need to keep these laws in mind. If your modifying your pool, you might be subject to new ADA rules. Certainly if you are what they consider a public pool (selling outside memberships or having swim teams), you must comply with new ADA laws..

Technologies have changed lot since your pool was built (in terms of clorination systems, ozonaters, etc).

Have a few reputable pool contractors come in and evaluate all your systems and infrastructure. Pumps, filters, clorination systems, Pool structure (water line tile, plaster condition (white coat etc).

If you need new furniture, go with a reputable commercial grade. Go with the new sling type furniture, not straps. If you need a couple of reputable commercial pool furniture specialty companies, let me know and I'll get you their information.

Good luck.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Agree with Brad. In our case a special assessment has to be voted on by the membership.
Suggest you make sure the amount will cover it then send out a preliminary notice asking the members if they would consider a Special Assessment (not an actual formal vote) and see what happens. Actual numbers and the mention of "Special Assessment" might get their attention.

Paul T

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Thank you gentlemen!

Mike, I recall you responded when I published a thread on keeping the pool about two years ago (it’s still here somewhere on this site) and you’re right – it IS an old wooden boat! I’ve never understood why people scream about “where are our assessments going,” and when they get an opportunity to influence how the money’s going to be spent they simply sit on their hands. We told people this wasn’t a Board decision (something like this should be decided by the homeowners), so this hooey about “the Board will do what it wants”’ wouldn’t fly (if it was only our decision, it would have been closed for good last year!)

When we proposed this back in January, we had some figures from our former pool vendor on how much it cost to run a full season (Memorial Day – Labor Day), average number of users (less than 5% the last time it was open), and estimates on what it may cost to fill up the pool vs. extensive repairs (those came from our reserve specialist and if those numbers were correct, we probably would need a special assessment).

All of this was presented to the homeowners and you’d think everyone would have voted, but alas, they didn’t. A few claimed they didn’t see the ballot (we mailed it to them in January with a stamped self addressed envelope to return it and later published it twice in the newsletter, along with the figures), and some we didn’t expect to hear from because they’re in foreclosure and could probably care less.

So Paul, I will take your suggestion to the Board when we meet in two weeks. Our annual meeting is in February, so perhaps this would be a good time to bring this up yet again and tell people something WILL happen to the pool later that year – it’s now a question of what and how much it will cost (and yes, their fees will reflect that cost).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 11/02/2012 1:16 PM
Thank you gentlemen!

Mike, I recall you responded when I published a thread on keeping the pool about two years ago (it’s still here somewhere on this site) and you’re right – it IS an old wooden boat! I’ve never understood why people scream about “where are our assessments going,” and when they get an opportunity to influence how the money’s going to be spent they simply sit on their hands. We told people this wasn’t a Board decision (something like this should be decided by the homeowners), so this hooey about “the Board will do what it wants”’ wouldn’t fly (if it was only our decision, it would have been closed for good last year!)

When we proposed this back in January, we had some figures from our former pool vendor on how much it cost to run a full season (Memorial Day – Labor Day), average number of users (less than 5% the last time it was open), and estimates on what it may cost to fill up the pool vs. extensive repairs (those came from our reserve specialist and if those numbers were correct, we probably would need a special assessment).

All of this was presented to the homeowners and you’d think everyone would have voted, but alas, they didn’t. A few claimed they didn’t see the ballot (we mailed it to them in January with a stamped self addressed envelope to return it and later published it twice in the newsletter, along with the figures), and some we didn’t expect to hear from because they’re in foreclosure and could probably care less.

So Paul, I will take your suggestion to the Board when we meet in two weeks. Our annual meeting is in February, so perhaps this would be a good time to bring this up yet again and tell people something WILL happen to the pool later that year – it’s now a question of what and how much it will cost (and yes, their fees will reflect that cost).

Sheila

we learned the hard way in trying to change covenants that if you want all to vote you need to go door to door and you need to plan on visiting them more than once.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Shelia:

My first thought would be you would need to contact the county DOH for your area if in fact THEY need to inspect and certify the pool.Did the DOH inspect your pool in previous years? As a pool serving your community I would guess this would need to meet the same standards as a commercial pool.

In that case the DOH might call for a complete review of your pool including electrical, plumbing, water circulation, and safety features among others. Since your pool was built many changes, updates and improvements has been made and are now available to bring the pool up to code going forward. There is also a new federal law regarding pool drains and the requirement they have a cover or valve that prevents vacumns from forming.

If you were to make any physical changes to the pool itself you might then be required to submit new drawings to the DOH for approval. Better to know all of this before hand rather than finding out later. In our area submitting new plans and obtaining pool certification can run around $8,000.

This entire process can be quite costly and time consuming. And FYI the approval process in the area where I live from the DOH can run 6 months or more. Better to find that out now before you make plans or promises to have this all done for next season.

Do you have any information on the pool. Liner type? Problems? Why was it closed? In ground? Was it winterized each year? The decking is concrete? Is it outdoor or indoor???

Good luck and get ready for a long ride............

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409

Posted:

Shelia,

After living here full time for over 20 years I am still amazed about the HOA voter apathy. Out of 6,400 properties we just barely, and sometimes do not, get a qurourm, about 1,500 valid votes.

However, what REALLY DOES get their attention is a Special Assessment. Maybe with the local code thing and a big fat estimate you might wake them up. Money talks.

Paul T

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 11/02/2012 3:41 PM
Shelia:

My first thought would be you would need to contact the county DOH for your area if in fact THEY need to inspect and certify the pool.Did the DOH inspect your pool in previous years? As a pool serving your community I would guess this would need to meet the same standards as a commercial pool.

In that case the DOH might call for a complete review of your pool including electrical, plumbing, water circulation, and safety features among others. Since your pool was built many changes, updates and improvements has been made and are now available to bring the pool up to code going forward. There is also a new federal law regarding pool drains and the requirement they have a cover or valve that prevents vacumns from forming.

If you were to make any physical changes to the pool itself you might then be required to submit new drawings to the DOH for approval. Better to know all of this before hand rather than finding out later. In our area submitting new plans and obtaining pool certification can run around $8,000.

This entire process can be quite costly and time consuming. And FYI the approval process in the area where I live from the DOH can run 6 months or more. Better to find that out now before you make plans or promises to have this all done for next season.

Do you have any information on the pool. Liner type? Problems? Why was it closed? In ground? Was it winterized each year? The decking is concrete? Is it outdoor or indoor???

Good luck and get ready for a long ride............

Thanks for your comments - our board meets next week and you've given us more information we'll need to consider. Personally, I never thought we'd have all this done in time to reopen the pool next year because we have to obtain bids for the work (whatever's decided) and I figured we wouldn't even begin the work until sometime this summer and possibly have it done sometime next year (in addition to fixing the pool and the toddler pool, we also need to replace the surrounding fence because people have jumped all over it and half of it's leaning.)

Anyway, as to your questions - it's an inground pool and I don't think it's been winterized since it was closed in 2009. The decking is concrete, but I'm not sure about the liner - wnen our pool vendor gave us an estimate for filling it in, he mentioned he'd jackhammer holes in the bottom for drainage instead of tearing out the liner. The pool was closed because we had (and still have) a high delinquency rate, and there were a number of repair needs that came up, so we couldn't afford to do everything and run a full season.

That year, we asked homeowners to vote on whether we should close it that year (that was a Board decision, but we wanted people to weigh in on what we should do) and the turnout was even worse than what we have right now. Only four people responded, saying the pool should be closed, so we did. Virtually no one protested and no one's asked about reopening the pool since then. We had covered it until someone used the cover as a trampoline or something and created a hole - we removed the cover to reduce the risk of some kid walking on it, falling in and then suing the Association.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Shelia

I might have another go at the owners. Collect the information and cost to repair, open, and operate the pool for the frist year. If the money is not there then it will require a special assessment. Once people sss this cost, they might well said Wow...I never thought....and end up voting to get rid of it.

Hit them where it hurts....in their wallets.

Hope this helps.

MikeS1
Posts: 521

Posted:

I'm surprised that this pool has a liner - You don't usually see this with this type of pool. Usually it's a plaster application.

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