Tracking Police Responses

We do not

Anyone who desires may get a printout of responses from the police department. However, unless the activity is violating an Association rule, it's not the Associations business. Personally, even if it is a violation of a rule, once police are involved - I no longer consider it Association business.

I am curious just what the association would do about the two units where the domestic violence complaints come from?

I will be the first to admit that this is a gray area for the association. One could easily argue that it is not the association's job to get involved in law enforcement matters, but there is probably a legitimate concern that domestic violence within one unit could become plain old violence outside the unit, endangering other residents.

CW,

There is an unspoken, unwritten, and well understood rule in all government agencies:
MAKE NO WAVES

Touchy situation, I suspect the parties are renters? Put the pressure on the OWNERS. Let us know what happens.

Paul T

In our case the police actions were in regards to gang graffiti and theft. So if we ignore the nature of the calls (i.e. domestic violence calls) and just consider all types of police response to the community and list it as a crime log, I feel that would be helpful to the community. As noted, this is not a privacy issue because it is a matter of public record.

I would have appreciated a crime record because keeping a history of the gang tagging of our property would inform the police of who and what (the police can often ID the people) and might tie into the thefts. People were sometimes careless about leaving their garage door open and needed to be reminded that things weren't so safe.

This said, the most active board member was the person stealing signs and the police had to be called in order to retrieve them. Obviously, this means all crimes if any were going to be reported.

The HOA board should deal directly, and forcefully, with the landlord and not the renters. Call the police as a concerned citizen, leaving the HOA board out of that situation, except to report incidents in public areas, including the wafting of pot smoke.

CW,

Forgot this. If you don't have a written type of noxious activities rule I would think your Board could establish a "policy" or some type of "declaration" along the lines of:

"No illegal, noxious or offensive activities shall be carried out or conducted upon any lot, nor shall anything be done within the properties which is or could become an unreasonable annoyance or nuisance to neighboring property owners."

or something similar to that. Based on my experience, it appears that Boards can do just about anything they want to unless it blatantly violates State law.

Paul T

CW,

Several months ago I posted a thread about an Arizona court opinion that said that a condo association had the same duty as an apartment owner to protect guests from violence in the common areas. In that case, non-resident gang members assaulted a visitor in the parking lot and the association was aware that similar assaults had occurred in the past. In fact, they had a part-time security guard to prevent such assaults and the assualt at issue occurred when the guard was not on duty.

This raises the question as to whether the association has a duty to protect its residents from violence perpetrated by other residents. Or in this case, non-owner residents.

You wrote:
"The domestic violance has spilled out into the street, and was directed toward a child in the family. The other unit, has also spilled out into the street, and has a drug factor involved. I can smell the drugs, marijuana, but have not seen it in use.

"It's been very difficult to penetrate this barrier with the other 4 Board members. There is some kind of code of silance, that makes it almost impossible to reason with them, that in fact we have a right to "at least" make a notification to the owners of these units. The others are afraid of violating someone's privacy and getting sued."

By serving on the board, you and the other board members have taken on a duty to the rest of the owners and their invitees. At least one of you believes that illegal drug activities take place in one unit and that one or more children have been the victim of violence. The absolute worst thing you and your board members can do at this point is to ignore it. The very definition of gross negligence is to be aware of a danger and to do nothing about it.

At the very least, your board needs to consult with its attorney to determine your board's potential liability. If the board refuses to do so, you should consult your own attorney to determine your individual liability. Generally, a board member does not become personally liable if he performs his duties in the same manner a reasonable person in a similar situation would. A reasonable person, by definition, is not grossly negligent. Therefore, doing nothing in the face of a threat to the owners you have a duty to protect is going to strip you of personal immunity.

You probably have no duty to inform the owner(s) of the rental units where these activities take place but you do likely have a duty to all the other owners to take some sort of reasonable steps to remove the dangers posed by these units. You may also have a statutory duty to report the child abuse, depending on state law. At the very least, your association should make a demand upon the owner(s) of the rental units to abate the problem immediately. If he/they fails to act, then you haul their butts into court for an order to remove the tenants and the danger they present.

All i can say is good luck, sooner or later you will find someone who will fight you and win. Here is a prime example...it is extremely annoying to me that our neighbors cat runs loose and poops in my yard. However, there is no ordinance against it in my city. Let's say I filed a complaint, there defense is it isn't against the law so therefore it isn't annoying. And there are a ton of examples we could all come up with that would fall into this category. What constitues a loud party? Is there an ordinance in your area against loose dogs?

The two major sources of noxious activities for us are loud parties and loose dogs. Our Town has a 10:00PM to 6:00AM noise cerfew and a code prohibiting dogs not on the owners property not under control of the owner. When you are awakened out of a sound sleep at 2:00AM with all your doors and windows closed and the sound is booming through your walls, that is an unreasonable annoyance. As mentioned, requiring the complainant to sign a complaint and appear at a hearing really weeds a lot of them out. Many people withdraw their complaint when they are advised of that. The people who do sign and appear are REALLY steamed. Overall, we have had very few appeals, only 6 in 16 years, none of which have been granted. Our Boards are mainly wimps and would grant an appeal in a heartbeat if they thought the complainant wasn't sincere. Works so far.

Paul T

If I were a member, I would like to know if there is a theft. When my neighbors had a break-in attempt, they called the police to report it and they informed me. I was glad to be alerted. If there is a car break-in, I'd appreciate being alerted as well.

If I was renting, as a tenant, I'd like to be aware of crimes and possible problems in the neighborhood.

I would know to be more careful and even to look out for suspicious behavior.

We only verified that the complainant had called the police, we don't "monitor" the police log. Our local paper publishes each call the PD logs. The fact that the complainant took the trouble to call the PD added credibility to their complaint.

From personal experience with my neighbor, who used to rent to week end skiers, calling the PD was a band aid approach. Each week end there was a new group of party animals. When she was fined $1000 for repeat noxious activities violations the problem was solved.

As we have about 80% part timers burglaries were and still are a problem. I would invite our PD representative to our Committee meetings to review and co-ordinate strategies for ways to try to minimize the problem, which were then passed on to our Members in our Newsletter.

Paul T

Paul this example is on the extreme of noxious behavior. Most cities have noise ordinances and ordinances against dogs running at large. I understand your point on making them sign a complaint but quite honestly this will come back to bite you. Lets take your example and say I lived behind you and the loud obnoxious barking was due to the fact that someone broke into my house while we werent there and the dog went nuts. You were obviously inconvenienced but what police officer in their right mind would issue a citation in that situation for violating a noise ordinance, yet your telling me you could make me pay via the HOA? How about another scenario, same situation. My dog is sick and at the vet, but a stray dog somehow gets into my backyard and is barking and wakes you up. Again you were heaviliy inconvenienced but what I am trying to show you is the complicated matter that a lot of these things can take. If you are that angry about it utilize your local ordinances, file a complaint with the police and handle it that way, that is why they have them.

Brad,

Points taken. Almost all of our dog related problems are referred to the Town Animal control. Repeat loose dog violations have been successfully remedied by using our noxious activities rule. The vast majority are resolved without a hearing. If there is a hearing the respondent can appeal at both the Committee and Board levels. As mentioned, in 16 years we only had 6 Board level appeals, none of which were granted. Looking back on it perhaps our Committee wasn't as aggressive as we should have been. Not sure how asking the complainant to sign a complaint will bite us as long as we follow documented procedures and are consistent. We did this to minimize the "neighbor getting back at the other neighbor" petty one time things like you mentioned. All other type of complaints can be anonymous. Part of our procedures:

"In cases where the complaint cannot be photographed or verified by Staff, such as, but not limited to, “Noxious Activities”(excessive noise, etc.) the complainant will be encouraged to personally attend the hearing. However, if the complainant chooses not to attend, a signed, written statement will be considered."

Actually, the word "encouraged" should read "required" as that is what we did. We always accepted a signed letter if the complainant wasn't able to attend. Most complainants appeared at the hearings. The Committee determines whether or not a complaint is valid. The complainant can appeal the Committee's decision to the Board, however I can't recall that ever being done. As mentioned, it has worked for 16 years with no legal action against us, to the best of my knowledge. Over the years we averaged from 25 to 30 noxious activities complaints per year, most were noise related during the ski season.

Paul T

Let me give an example. Pretend your HOA is a bowl of Alphabet soup. To be a member of the HOA you must be a "letter". Now a spoon is dipped into the bowl. That spoon represents crime. Some letters will get hit with the spoon while others will just feel the ripple effects. Now anyone who is a letter "A" is a board member. They represent the HOA. What can they actually do when the spoon comes in? It's pretty limited as the spoon is coming from the OUTSIDE and it would be the OUTSIDE world that would control the spoon. Why knowing the spoon has been in the soup and how many times going to resolve anything? Spoon is still going to come into the bowl but maybe knowing what to look for when it comes will help others move out of the way.

Now imagine that your HOA has pieces of chicken in their alphabet soup. The pieces of chicken represent the "Renters". They too would be effected by the spoon. It maybe like me that I would like to eat the pieces of chicken over the alphabet letters. So the chicken could attracting the spoon. The alphabet can't get just get rid of the chicken and the chicken is in the SAME bowl. The pieces of chicken have the same fear of the spoon. They should be included in watching out for the spoon too. However, since they are NOT letters they are NOT members of the HOA. Just share the same bowl.

I guess I am just really hungry when I wrote this. However, many people seem to believe their HOA is like living in a "bubble" world. It's supposed to be some kind of "Europia" inside. The reality is that we all have to live together and contribute. Outside world things like "spoons" enter our HOA worlds. The best way to deal with it in the end is having the best education and knowledge as an individual to prevent or recognize when a spoon is over our heads.