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RandyB4 (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Very likely

Paul T
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB4 on 10/16/2012 11:51 AM
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?

I think one or both sides needs a lawyer and we'd need more info. See below:

Civil Code ยง1367.4. Limitations on Foreclosure.
(a) Notwithstanding any law or any provisions of the governing documents to the contrary, this section shall apply to debts for assessments that arise on and after January 1, 2006.

(b) An association that seeks to collect delinquent regular or special assessments of an amount less than one thousand eight hundred dollars ($1,800), not including any accelerated assessments, late charges, fees and costs of collection, attorney's fees, or interest, may not collect that debt through judicial or nonjudicial foreclosure, but may attempt to collect or secure that debt in any of the following ways:

(1) By a civil action in small claims court, pursuant to Chapter 5.5 (commencing with Section 116.110) of Title 1 of the Code of Civil Procedure. An association that chooses to proceed by an action in small claims court, and prevails, may enforce the judgment as permitted under Article 8 (commencing with Section 116.810) of Title 1 of the Code of Civil Procedure. The amount that may be recovered in small claims court to collect upon a debt for delinquent assessments may not exceed the jurisdictional limits of the small claims court and shall be the sum of the following:

(A) The amount owed as of the date of filing the complaint in the small claims court proceeding.

(B) In the discretion of the court, an additional amount to that described in subparagraph (A) equal to the amount owed for the period from the date the complaint is filed until satisfaction of the judgment, which total amount may include accruing unpaid assessments and any reasonable late charges, fees and costs of collection, attorney's fees, and interest, up to the jurisdictional limits of the small claims court.

(2) By recording a lien on the owner's separate interest upon which the association may not foreclose until the amount of the delinquent assessments secured by the lien, exclusive of any accelerated assessments, late charges, fees and costs of collection, attorney's fees, or interest, equals or exceeds one thousand eight hundred dollars ($1,800) or the assessments are more than 12 months delinquent. An association that chooses to record a lien under these provisions, prior to recording the lien, shall offer the owner and, if so requested by the owner, participate in dispute resolution as set forth in Article 5 (commencing with Section 1368.810) of Chapter 4.

RandyB4 (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Amount around $2,900. What else do you need?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB4 on 10/16/2012 11:51 AM
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?

Randy,

This is pretty much a black-and-white issue. The assessments are owed but not paid. The resolution is to pay. Just what is that your friend hopes to accomplish through dispute resolution?

From what you posted, I do not see where he has anything in his favor.
PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB4 on 10/16/2012 11:51 AM
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?

As I said earlier, "very likely". HOWEVER, it would not hurt anything for the Board to allow your friend the opportunity to present his side of the situation and to consider his proposed alternatives. Then they could start the lien process after going through the motions of listening to him.

Paul T
EdmundS1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 45
Posted:
It's not a dispute, he does not deny that he owes the money. Talk to the board, on the board I'm on we have 5-6 residents that are behind in payment. We don't want to place a lien as that costs the HOA money.

We have "agreements" with the 5-6 residents that are behind to make at least a partial payment each month until they get their affairs in order. A "Good Faith" jesture is in order for both parties.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Dispute resolution is not a free service, so going this route just puts the owner even deeper in the hole. The best result that the owner could expect from dispute resolution would be a payment plan to bring the amount due current. The owner does not need a third party to make such an offer to the board.

Do not be surprised, though, if the board refuses to accept a payment plan. One of the reasons why real estate people act like such pricks when it comes to partial payments is that it can really cloud the issue if it becomes necessary to go to court. Basically, there is a contract that says A will do one thing and B will do another. Then A fails to do his part but offers to do something else. If B accepts that offer, then the whole contract can be questioned. If B refuses to accept A's offer, the contract remains unquestioned and enforceable. Personally, I do not endorse such a cold-blooded approach to doing business, but that is the way many see it.

PaulT6 (California)
Posts: 409
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulT6 on 10/16/2012 2:16 PM
Posted By RandyB4 on 10/16/2012 11:51 AM
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?


As I said earlier, "very likely". HOWEVER, it would not hurt anything for the Board to allow your friend the opportunity to present his side of the situation and to consider his proposed alternatives. Then they could start the lien process after going through the motions of listening to him.

Paul T

I kind of missed the dispute resolution by a third party. We have an "in house" dispute resolution process which is kind of an unofficial, ahead of time, type of an appeal process. IIRC, some time back, I think I read about the State requiring HOA's to establish some sort of in house dispute resolution process or policy?

Paul T
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulT6 on 10/16/2012 4:11 PM

I kind of missed the dispute resolution by a third party. We have an "in house" dispute resolution process which is kind of an unofficial, ahead of time, type of an appeal process. IIRC, some time back, I think I read about the State requiring HOA's to establish some sort of in house dispute resolution process or policy?

Paul,

I may have misinterpreted the phrase "dispute resolution." I just assumed that this was a reference to some sort of mediation or arbitration or even civil action in court. Civil Code ยง1369.510, "ADR Definitions" neither includes nor excludes an in-house person or committee, so it is hard to determine if that is contemplated by the statutes. The statute does, however, include "other nonjudicial procedure that involves a neutral party in the decision making process," so it seems that if both parties agree it is permissible.

As others have pointed out, liening and forclosing are a burden to the association, so they do have an incentive to accept a payment plan that will bring assessments up to date.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The OP did not say/ask about a 3rd party dispute resolution. He did not say his friend is disputing the back dues amount. He almost implied his friend was looking to beat the amount.

If his friend agrees he owes the amount then the best he can do is pay what he owes now or maybe arrange a time payment schedule. While the BOD does not have to allow a time payment schedule, they would be follish not to at least discuss the issue before they make a decision.

Randy. Does your friend dispute the amount owed?

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Just an FYI. In Los Angeles county, there is a free mediator available.However as with all free services, things move slowly and both parties have to be willing.

This might be the case with other areas in California.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Gee that couldn't be what the "friend" has in mind do you think, slowing down the process? IMO the Board should have liened months ago and started foreclosure proceedings when he reached the minimum mark for it in CA.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Am I the only one who missed the dispute here? The friend owe HOA DUES. What is the dispute here? It sounds like the friend is witholding their dues because they disagree with something. Which is like holding the entire HOA hostage to fit their demands. However, it's not really that much of a financial burden to the HOA as many are representing here. The amount it cost to file the lien is factored into the lien. Which means when the lien is paid off, the amount of money it cost to file it is paid back as well. So the HOA is only truly out the filing fee be it through hiring a lawyer or filing the lien themselves. The fee of filing can range from free to a few hundred dollars depending on your area. A lawyer may or may not be needed as well to file.

We had a clear lien policy in our HOA. We collected dues monthly. 6 months of unpaid dues equalled a lien. IF the owner made arrangements prior to that, then we would not lien. I've had some pay half their dues for a few months until they could catch up or skip adding late fees. Which by the way late fees and interest (legal limit of interest) may be added to any lien filed along with the legal fees to a lien. We started Foreclosure proceedings after a year depending on the circumstances. Keep in mind a lien or foreclosure just stops the bleeding of a HOA. It does NOT make it a profit.

My advice...Your friend better start making payment arrangements. No protest is worth losing your house over or putting your credit at risk. Not paying your dues is like not paying your utilities. They can shut off your power if you don't pay your electric bill. A HOA can take your house away no matter what your reasoning is for not paying....Your just not paying...

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RandyB4 on 10/16/2012 11:51 AM
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?

It may depend on your documents, but generally the Board doesn't have to do a dispute resolution, especially in this case. Dispute resolutions are usually done when there's a issue over CCR violations or perhaps an architectural change request that got denied, but your friend is legally obligated to pay dues as a HOA member and hasn't.

The Board has a fidicuary duty to protect the Association's intereest, so a lien would be appropriate (it can be removed as soon as your friend brings the account current). So, have your friend explain to the board why he's delinquent - if there's been a job loss, major illness or something like that, he and the board may be able to negotiate a payment plan. However, if he hasn't paid because he's upset a rule hasn't been enforced or received a violation notice, he's in the wrong because that has nothing to do with his/her obligation to pay fees.

.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RandyB4 (California)
Posts: 25
Posted:
My fiend is going thru a divorce. Her POA building is in short sale with her bank, she also behind in her payments to the bank. Her business is still in the building. Her dispute is friends of the board got special treatment when they are late (no liens on their properties and some past dues were written off), but she is getting a lien. Will she get a change to be hear by a judge at the lien hearing?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
My friend is behind in dues. Board is going to lien property. My friend has asked for dispute a resolution. Board says they don't have to. Is this true?


There is no dispute resolution for this. He owes and hasn't paid. Is he disputing he owes the money?

He can work out a payment plan and maybe they wont lien, but if I was on the board I would lien anyway. If your friend is $2900 behind, he has huge financial issues and its unlikely he is going to catch up. Foreclosure is probably in his future. The lien is only one of his worries, if it was my HOA, if no payment plan was made or he failed to make payments on a plan, I would also sue him in small claims court, get a judgement, garnish wages, etc.

If he doesnt pay his dues, that means I'm paying his dues. And I dont like to fund other people's bad choices in life.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Will she get a change to be hear by a judge at the lien hearing?


There is no lien hearing. The HOA simply mails the paperwork with the state to be recorded. Done.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If she cant afford the house, she either needs to leave on her own or be forced out. Its sad, but true.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
she also behind in her payments to the bank.


Why is she worried about a lien? Even though she has it up for short sale, the bank is already working on foreclosing. Its only a matter of time.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So if your friend worked out a deal with the board wouldn't the other members say that she had preferential treatment? It's a two way street there. The "Friend" of the HOA most likely worked out a deal to avoid the lien. Just like your friend wants to do. So not seeing why make a fight out of this instead of working on a solution. It's clear the other person did this on friendly terms on got what they wanted. Your friend isn't working on friendly terms and getting what they deserve...It's time to put the big girl pants on and work on a payment plan like an adult...Harsh words I know but no other words to describe the drama that this is with the dispute and preferential treatment statements...That's drama...HOA's don't do drama when it comes to paying their bills only in rule disputes...

Former HOA President

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