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FannyY (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I’m new to the forum and I was hoping someone can give me some advice.

I live in a neighborhood of zero lot lines. There is a 5feet easement line allowed. We are the third owners who moved into this property beginning of this year. The original owner of the home had put in landscape and hardscape. We replaced the dying grass with new grass and also filled in a planter that sits within the easement and that’s what opened a can of worms for us.

Our neighbor doesn’t like the fact that the grass is up against their property even though that’s where we were told our property line ends. They wanted it removed and the neighbor also requested for us to remove all the dirt/grass that is in our planter because it is cover a weep screed which is suppose to allow the stucco walls to breathe. A city inspector told us, to be up to city code we will have to remove the dirt and the grass to expose the weep screed even though he has seen this situation very often which isn’t an issue until someone complains. We comply and bring it up to code.

The city inspector brought up another issue which concerns the neighbor’s downspouts that drains into the easement. He cited them and asked the neighbors to have it removed. Now our neighbor is asking us to possibly remove all the hardscape that is against their wall because it covers their weep screed, but it's been that way since 1978 when the first owner put it in. The neighbors are the second owner of their home and they've never asked the previous owners to remove the hardscape but is now requesting for us to do so. We want to comply and just have it remove so we can be up to city code even though it’s going to cost a fortune! BUT the contractors won’t cut the brick/concrete until the downspouts are moved.

Now the problem is, our neighbor does not want to move their downspouts and wants to fight it with the original CC&Rs from 1978 (we didn’t know it existed since there’s no HOA). They are trying to claim that the 5feet easement is part of their property, so they don’t have to remove the downspouts. The easement has been enclosed to be a part of our side yard from the original builders, so it doesn’t make sense that it’s part of their property.
The CC&Rs state after 90% or more of the Lots within the Property have been sold or after 5 years, whichever shall first occur, the Owners of the majority of the Lots shall appoint all the members of the Architectural Committee. Not sure what this means? Does it mean that by now the CC&Rs is defunct?

Thank you for reading. Please Help!!! Thanks!
Fannie
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM

wants to fight it with the original CC&Rs from 1978 (we didn’t know it existed since there’s no HOA).

Fanny, welcome to the forum. The claim that people didn't know about the covenants is a common theme within this forum. Bottom line, you should have known about them.

The CC&Rs are in fact deed restrictions. They are attached to your deed and you should have been told about them when you purchased the property. You may or may not have received a copy of them (depends how dilligent your Realtor, Closing Company and Title search was). However, I expect that you signed something in the stack of papers you received at closing informing you of deed restrictions.

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM

Does it mean that by now the CC&Rs is defunct?

No. Regardless if the Association is active or not, the CC&Rs are attached to the deed and are bound to them. That is to say, every owner who purchases the property must comply with them from the moment they were attached forward.

It is possible to have them removed but it requires 100% agreement of all owners and a good real estate lawyer.

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM
They are trying to claim that the 5feet easement is part of their property, so they don’t have to remove the downspouts. The easement has been enclosed to be a part of our side yard from the original builders, so it doesn’t make sense that it’s part of their property.

You need to go back to the survey of your property. That is the document that will tell you who owns it. If in doubt, pay and have a new survey done.

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM

The city inspector brought up another issue which concerns the neighbor’s downspouts that drains into the easement. He cited them and asked the neighbors to have it removed. Now our neighbor is asking us to possibly remove all the hardscape that is against their wall because it covers their weep screed, . . . We want to comply and just have it remove so we can be up to city code even though it’s going to cost a fortune! BUT the contractors won’t cut the brick/concrete until the downspouts are moved.

Now the problem is, our neighbor does not want to move their downspouts

Sounds like you need to go back to the city inspector.
You should also get a letter from your contractors specifying that they will not remove the hardscape until the downspouts are removed and the reason why. You may need this document in the future.

When you got other bids, did all the contractors specify this or just that one?

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM

Now our neighbor is asking us to possibly remove all the hardscape that is against their wall because it covers their weep screed, but it's been that way since 1978 when the first owner put it in. The neighbors are the second owner of their home and they've never asked the previous owners to remove the hardscape but is now requesting for us to do so.

Well they probably blame you for causing the city to cite them about the downspouts. Human nature being what it is, this is probably a way for them to get back at you.

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 11:33 AM

The CC&Rs state after 90% or more of the Lots within the Property have been sold or after 5 years, whichever shall first occur, the Owners of the majority of the Lots shall appoint all the members of the Architectural Committee. Not sure what this means?

Typically, the CC&Rs require approval from the Association prior to making any exterior changes to your property. This approval usually comes directly from the Board of Directors or the Architectural Committee.

While a development is being built, the language in the CC&Rs and other governing documents typically give the developer full control over everything to do with the Association. As the project comes to completion, control of the Association transitions over to the membership (the owners). That section you cited specifies when control of the Architectural Committee would be transferred from the developer to the members.

I know this isn't exactly what you were hoping to receive as a reply.
I hope it helps,

Tim

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Fanny,

You need to find a copy of the original survey plat for your lot to see where the property lines and easements are. This should have been recorded with whatever agency records deeds in your area. What is the purpose of the easement?

Is it possible that your city or county building codes did not permit zero-lot-lines? The developer may have been required to build five feet from the property line and achieved the zero-lot-line appearance by granting the neighboring property an easement to use that five feet. Thus, the five feet that you use as part of your yard would belong to your neighbor and you own five feet on the other side of your home but your other neighbor has a similar easement. This is just a possibility.

Building a planter against the wall of a building is a bad idea. It looks great in Sunset magazine but in the long run it creates an incredible amount of water damage, even for brick or block walls.

In one case that I saw for myself, the owner of one townhouse installed a sprinkler in his garden area that sprayed water onto the wall of home next door and had been used for a number of years. The wall was concrete block and the water traveled through the mortar joints, destroying the furring and drywall of the neighboring home.

The last home I owned had a raised planter built against the exterior wall. The home inspector warned us when we purchased that this was not a good idea. I noticed that there were sprinklers in the planter that did not seem to be connected. Then one day I had to pull up the carpeting along the exterior walls in one bedroom and found that where there were planters on the exterior all the nails in the carpet strip were rusted but where there were no planters there was no rust. I concluded that water from the planters had seeped in through the walls. I also concluded that one of the previous owners had deliberately disconnect the sprinklers in the planter because of the water damage.

At the very least, remove as much of the planter and hardscape as possible without messing with the neighbor's downspouts. The city has cited them so let the city deal with the downspouts. Building or moving material against the neighbor's home could create a liability for you, so removal would mitigate whatever damage has been done, if any.

Your CC&R's are going to take some research. You will need to find out if they have been amended or terminated and that will be at the recorder's office if it exists. CC&R's almost always have some restrictions on what may be done with the property and often provide for an association to maintain any common areas and/or to enforce the restrictions. If there are no common areas owned by the association, the owners may let the association die for lack of interest but the restrictions still remain. It sounds like the developer intended to have an association with at least an architectural committee, but once the development is built out there would be little interest among the owners to maintain such a committee. Most CC&R's allow individual property owners to enforce the restrictions through court action, so even without an association you could still get into trouble violating the restrictions.

FannyY (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks Tim! If I need to find out more about where my property lines starts and stop where do I go? Is the recorder's office located in City hall usually? I am more concern with bringing my home up to city code, but due to the neighbor's unwillingness to move the downspouts everything is at a stand still.

Now that it's left to the owners, who will enforce the CC&Rs if the owners can't resolve the problem? Is taking it to court the next step?
FannyY (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/16/2012 2:00 PM
Fanny,

At the very least, remove as much of the planter and hardscape as possible without messing with the neighbor's downspouts. The city has cited them so let the city deal with the downspouts. Building or moving material against the neighbor's home could create a liability for you, so removal would mitigate whatever damage has been done, if any.


Thanks Larry for the input. The 5ft easement on our side yard allows the neighbor to do anything to there property such as paint, cleaning out rain gutters, etc. We have the right to do any landscaping as long as it's not a structure that prevents the neighbors from working on their property.

From what I have learned, the planters were there from the first owner back in 1980. The current neighbors are the second owners and they've had water damage previously due to an el nino. The previous homeowner of my property added french drains and paid for the neighbor's rain gutters to be newly installed. Currently our planter is up to code because we lowered it 4inches below the weep screed which is what the city code requires.

It's just frustrating that instead of tackling the problem and bringing everything up to city code on both ends, the neighbors are trying to argue against city code with CC&Rs. All just to prevent removal of the downspouts! The city inspector, told us that both claims are on hold until we can figure out who owns the easement. Which doesn't make sense if the city told us that city codes supercede CC&Rs. Shouldn't the city be able to just enforce the rules by citing the neighbors if they don't remove it?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 7:15 PM

It's just frustrating that instead of tackling the problem and bringing everything up to city code on both ends, the neighbors are trying to argue against city code with CC&Rs. All just to prevent removal of the downspouts! The city inspector, told us that both claims are on hold until we can figure out who owns the easement. Which doesn't make sense if the city told us that city codes supercede CC&Rs. Shouldn't the city be able to just enforce the rules by citing the neighbors if they don't remove it?

The city inspector is correct that the city code trumps the CC&R's if there is a conflict between the two. Keep in mind that only the conflicting provision is negated; the rest of the CC&R's remain intact.

I think the problem here is that you believe that the easements are created by the CC&R's. Normally easements are dedicated either on a plat or in the deed to the property. CC&R's are not usually the vehicle for dedicating easements.

My perception is that there is a general preference to dedicate easements through a plat. When a property changes hands the usual practice is to copy the language from the old deed to the new and the more complicated the language the more likely it will be wrong. I know of at least one Arizona court case where titles to four properties got completely screwed up because someone forgot to account for an easement when they subdivided a larger tract.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 6:56 PM
Thanks Tim! If I need to find out more about where my property lines starts and stop where do I go? Is the recorder's office located in City hall usually?

That's a good place to start.
Since I live in VA I can't give you specifics on where to look. Typically it's within the same department that issues building permits.

Quote:
Posted By FannyY on 10/16/2012 6:56 PM

Now that it's left to the owners, who will enforce the CC&Rs if the owners can't resolve the problem? Is taking it to court the next step?

Yep.

The CC&Rs are actually a contract between all owners who have the same deed restrictions. Contracts only work when the parties involved are willing to comply with the specifics of the contract. If someone decides not to comply with the contract and the issue can't be resolved by themselves, the only other option is to take them to court.

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