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ScottP9 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I'm in a CA HOA. We have a small community (about 18 units). Several owners are now off-site or elderly.

One Board member has been lobbying hard and is assigned about 8 of their proxy votes (without necessarily representing their needs -- just voting his interest 9 times (8 plus his 1). It is therefore nearly impossible to have a fair representation of the opinions/issues and to get anything passed that would negatively impact him (though they would be in the best interest of the HOA or even several of the units he is proxy voting for).

Does anyone have experience in proxy hoarding issues or can cite any code that limits them or ways to work around this?
I have not seen anything in Davis-Stirling.

Thanks.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Scott

1. Generally proxies are valid for a specific period of time (in SC, 11 months) unless the proxy has an earlier expiration time as part of it.

2. A later dated proxy (say one dated 10/13/12) does override one dated earlier (say one dated 10/10/12).

So far the "hoarder" is winning. How to "beat" him is in the above #2 information.

Hope this helps.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
What you are experiencing is politics at work. Apparently this person is willing to put forth the effort and solicit proxies. Anyone who is willing to put forth similar effort may approach other members and ask to be their proxy representative.

The way around it is to educate the members on the different types of proxies.

A general proxy simply authorizes someone to cast a vote in the name of the member.

A directed proxy does the same thing but specifies how that vote is to be cast.

Most Boards only draft a general proxy form. If your on the board, I would suggest drafting up a directed proxy form and using that from this time forward.

I would also suggest that if an issue is being voted on by the membership that you feel strongly about to start knocking on doors with a stack of proxy forms in your hand and ask the member if they will be attending the meeting. If they are not, ask that they assign you as their proxy representative.
ScottP9 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks. Many of these are elderly/off-site owners who I have never met (but the Board member had met since he has lived here many years). It would be nearly impossible for me to get in touch w/ these owners etc. I'd be interested in learning more about the types of proxies and how we can limit or question the ones he has. No one ever questions his proxies (i.e., their expiration or scope etc.).

We are having an HOA mtg in a couple weeks whereby homeowners are proposing new rules and amendements to our CC&Rs. I'd like to propose a new rule limiting the authority of the proxies etc., but not sure how to do that etc.

Any help would be appreciated.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Sorry Scott, but the answer lies in "he's doing a better job than you". Proxies must be checked by the election committee or chairman for validation. Is the chairman doing that? If not, educate him.

Are people giving proxies without knowing what they are doing? educate them.

Are you looking for someone else to come in and solve your problem? Educate yourself. You are the only one who can do something for yourself. If you want to beat this guy, you have to put in more effort than he does.
ScottP9 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Brian - I put in a LOT of effort. I have been on the Board many times and spent much of my personal time fixing our problems. What I won't do is lie to homeowners and assure that their vote will go towards their best interest.

Thanks for your help.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottP9 on 10/13/2012 5:02 PM
It would be nearly impossible for me to get in touch w/ these owners etc.

Ask for a copy of the membership list (which will have their mailing addresses

OR

Go to the county tax office and look up the mailing address of the owner of the property (as this is typically a public record)

Then mail them a letter introducing yourself, identifying your concerns and ask for their proxy or at least for them to give their proxy to someone else.

Quote:
Posted By ScottP9 on 10/13/2012 5:02 PM

I'd be interested in learning more about the types of proxies and how we can limit or question the ones he has. No one ever questions his proxies (i.e., their expiration or scope etc.).

See CA Corporations Code ยง7613 (courtesy of Davis-Stirling.com)

Also see Civil Code ยง1363.03. Election Procedures

(1) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(A) "Proxy" means a written authorization signed by a member or the authorized representative of the member that gives another member or members the power to vote on behalf of that member.

(B) "Signed" means the placing of the member's name on the proxy (whether by manual signature, typewriting, telegraphic transmission, or otherwise) by the member or authorized representative of the member.

(2) Proxies shall not be construed or used in lieu of a ballot. An association may use proxies if permitted or required by the bylaws of the association and if those proxies meet the requirements of this article, other laws, and the association's governing documents, but the association shall not be required to prepare or distribute proxies pursuant to this section.

(3) Any instruction given in a proxy issued for an election that directs the manner in which the proxyholder is to cast the vote shall be set forth on a separate page of the proxy that can be detached and given to the proxyholder to retain. The proxyholder shall cast the member's vote by secret ballot. The proxy may be revoked by the member prior to the receipt of the ballot by the inspector of elections as described in Section 7613 of the Corporations Code.

Quote:
Posted By ScottP9 on 10/13/2012 5:02 PM

We are having an HOA mtg in a couple weeks whereby homeowners are proposing new rules and amendements to our CC&Rs. I'd like to propose a new rule limiting the authority of the proxies etc., but not sure how to do that etc.

See Eliminating Proxies on Davis-stirling.com

Per Davis-Stirlings site: RECOMMENDATION Under the new election laws, proxies have become problematic. The solution is to amend your bylaws to eliminate quorum requirements for the election of directors. This allows elections to be conducted entirely through the mail and dispenses with the need for proxies. To simplify your elections, contact us about amending your bylaws.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Scott

I expect with a meeting in few weeks, it is to late to beat him at his own game.

You can go to the meeting and I expect speak, but so far he is winning. Use the opportunity to learn about him. Do not do battle with him at that time. Learn from him to better battle him at another time.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War, Know your enemies and know yourself, etc.

Now if you are really mad. The he!! with Sun Tzu. Whisper in his ear, I got you figured out Ahole and we will see each other again......LOL

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Brian,

That is an excellent answer.

Scott,

There is no reason to lie. Contact the other owners as best as you can, tell them why they should back you and your ideas, and then ask them for their proxies. If you cannot knock on their doors because they are out of state, then call them on the telephone. If you do not have their phone numbers, contact them by mail. Like Brian said about the other board member, "he's doing a better job than you". You need to beat him at his own game.
ScottP9 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks John - at least I got a laugh out of this nightmare situation. I will have to ponder your last piece of advice...
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Scott, i understand you are putting in a lot of effort. But this guy is putting in more, and in ways that people want. He's pandering to them. Promising them things. Perhaps lieing to them.

That is, sad to say, politics these days. And the people fall for it. Your chance is simply to do more work, do more effort, educate these people, and try to either get their vote, or at the least, deny it going to him.

I won't tell you tactics, but the bottom line with people is that they love to be lied to by their politicians. You have a long bit of human behavior to overcome.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
It would be nearly impossible for me to get in touch w/ these owners etc.


The town has no trouble sending them their tax bill, I dont see why you would have any trouble contacting them. The town hall has their address. A letter takes about 1-2 days to be delivered. Your HOA could easily send them info on what will be voted on, details about the vote and let them know someone has a proxy on record in their name. They may not even know about the proxy. Your only talking about $4 in postage.

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